movies

[Cole Burns]

I have a friend - early twenties - and the night that Bin Laden was shot he bemoaned it:

"My generation will be defined by torture and violence," he said.

Hey, remember the greatest generation? Yeah, they dropped two A Bombs. Get over yourself.

(Not sure where this fits in the discussion, just that sometimes we gripe about details of history, when the greater context goes unappreciated)

[wart57]

I have a friend - early twenties - and the night that Bin Laden was shot he bemoaned it:

"My generation will be defined by torture and violence," he said.

Hey, remember the greatest generation? Yeah, they dropped two A Bombs. Get over yourself.

(Not sure where this fits in the discussion, just that sometimes we gripe about details of history, when the greater context goes unappreciated)

And both acts probably saved thousands of American Lives.

[Arthur Dent]

Not to get this movie thread too far off topic, but if it took torturing those in the organization which promoted flying planes into the WTC to get the intel needed to kill Bin Laden, so be it.

Well, that's the thing, it didn't, ask John McCain.

It's worth quoting him on the matter:

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2011 ... a-detainee

But this must be an informed debate. Former attorney general Michael Mukasey recently claimed that “the intelligence that led to bin Laden . . . began with a disclosure from Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who broke like a dam under the pressure of harsh interrogation techniques that included waterboarding. He loosed a torrent of information — including eventually the nickname of a trusted courier of bin Laden.” That is false.

I asked CIA Director Leon Panetta for the facts, and he told me the following: The trail to bin Laden did not begin with a disclosure from Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times. The first mention of Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti — the nickname of the al-Qaeda courier who ultimately led us to bin Laden — as well as a description of him as an important member of al-Qaeda, came from a detainee held in another country, who we believe was not tortured. None of the three detainees who were waterboarded provided Abu Ahmed’s real name, his whereabouts or an accurate description of his role in al-Qaeda.

In fact, the use of “enhanced interrogation techniques” on Khalid Sheik Mohammed produced false and misleading information. He specifically told his interrogators that Abu Ahmed had moved to Peshawar, got married and ceased his role as an al-Qaeda facilitator — none of which was true. According to the staff of the Senate intelligence committee, the best intelligence gained from a CIA detainee — information describing Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti’s real role in al-Qaeda and his true relationship to bin Laden — was obtained through standard, noncoercive means.

I know from personal experience that the abuse of prisoners sometimes produces good intelligence but often produces bad intelligence because under torture a person will say anything he thinks his captors want to hear — true or false — if he believes it will relieve his suffering. Often, information provided to stop the torture is deliberately misleading.

Torture was instrumental, however, at obtaining the totally false testimony needed to justify the invasion of Iraq, and was in that way one of the key reasons it took a decade to find Bin Laden.

[stlouie_lipp]

And that is how it is portrayed in the movie. The people who really connected the dots from Bin Laden to Abu Ahmed for the CIA simply volunteer the information. How did they get those names in the first place? Torture? Maybe.

I am certainly not going to just believe what the government tells me. I'm not naive enough to think that torture didn't play some role in getting Bin Laden.

[slide_into_first]

The problem with torture is it's not used enough on those who deserve it.

[slide_into_first]

People who don't go when the light turns green
Climate change deniers
Talking points reciters

[Vidor]

Darth Cheney's daughter liked it

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/16/affleck ... ig_at_zdt/

[letsgocards89]

Saw it in 3D- not on purpose- last night. Really enjoyed it. Don't think the extra I paid for the 3d experience was worth the cost.

Everything's in 3D these days and I don't see a lot of movies, but so far only Avatar and Life of Pi used it effectively or made it, I feel, worth it. I agree about 3D in The Hobbit. Also, regarding the Hobbit, I think we've found the point of diminishing returns with high def.

I thought the Hobbit was great. I think Jackson nailed the tone, it's super fun, and like the books, a bit of a contrast from LOTR. Maybe a bit long, and to be perfectly honest, while I like to think of myself as an objective thinker, there probably wasn't much of a chance I would dislike it, so my opinion doesn't really mean much.

Watched it in 3d at the IMAX. It was great. I really enjoyed the use of 3D. Those soaring terrain visuals just gain so much depth.

[Maclowery]

I have a friend - early twenties - and the night that Bin Laden was shot he bemoaned it:

"My generation will be defined by torture and violence," he said.

Hey, remember the greatest generation? Yeah, they dropped two A Bombs. Get over yourself.

(Not sure where this fits in the discussion, just that sometimes we gripe about details of history, when the greater context goes unappreciated)

And both acts probably saved thousands of American Lives.

Man, I hate to pollute a movie thread, and I also hate to comment on political or social stuff, but in my opinion, dropping atom bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki are among the most heinous acts of the 20th century. Dresden firebombing and the Nazi atrocities are worse in terms of innocents killed. But c'mon. I'm with Cole. It's one of the darkest stains on America's very stained history.

Cant we talk about movies again? I already said In Bruges was terrific. I just tried to watch Cloud Atlas last night, and stopped after 15 minutes. I know several fellow bookworms who said the book is more satisfying than the movie, and I am going with their recommendation. Sorry, weird looking Tom Hanks.

[MrSaigon]

Watched Punch Drunk Love for the first time since it just came out on DVD. Sandler is so good in it. Too bad he got lazy or whatever. One of those movies that feels more like an exercise or something but I rather like it. Funnier than i remember. That scene with PSH at the end is so fantastic.