stlouie_lipp wrote:I was surprised at how she treated the differences between Bush and Obama when it came to intelligence gathering. It was almost as if she was saying the Bush administration had the better approach - or, at least, gave us better intel.
Some dick head in front of me scoffed when they showed the clip of Pres Obama saying "America is a country that doesn't torture" as if not torturing people = liberal coward.
Well, if I was the dickhead in front of you I'd have scoffed because a US President once again wants us to believe in the better angels of our nature when those left town about the same time the author of that quote did.
If you think America does not torture, you haven't been paying attention. Since the Cold War, the only difference in the last decade was it was overt instead of covert policy.
We are subjects of an Empire. Dark and ugly things are done in our name all the time.
stlouie_lipp wrote:I was surprised at how she treated the differences between Bush and Obama when it came to intelligence gathering. It was almost as if she was saying the Bush administration had the better approach - or, at least, gave us better intel.
Some dick head in front of me scoffed when they showed the clip of Pres Obama saying "America is a country that doesn't torture" as if not torturing people = liberal coward.
Well, if I was the dickhead in front of you I'd have scoffed because a US President once again wants us to believe in the better angels of our nature when those left town about the same time the author of that quote did.
If you think America does not torture, you haven't been paying attention. Since the Cold War, the only difference in the last decade was it was overt instead of covert policy.
We are subjects of an Empire. Dark and ugly things are done in our name all the time.
I aim to please. Libs tortured in Vietnam. Cons tortured in Afghanistan. Our surrogates during the Cold War certainly tortured while we turned a blind eye. Our surrogate on the eastern shore of the Mediterranean tortures today while we turn a blind eye.
Torture is not a liberal / conservative thing. It's a projection of power thing. If you think Obama means what he says about torture to be anything other than feel-good window dressing, you are fooling yourself.
I aim to please. Libs tortured in Vietnam. Cons tortured in Afghanistan. Our surrogates during the Cold War certainly tortured while we turned a blind eye. Our surrogate on the eastern shore of the Mediterranean tortures today while we turn a blind eye.
Torture is not a liberal / conservative thing. It's a projection of power thing. If you think Obama means what he says about torture to be anything other than feel-good window dressing, you are fooling yourself.
I didn't say anything regarding the reality of torture and our nation's use of it in the past, present or future.
I called a person a dickhead for scoffing at the idea that torture is something we should villify. Then you decided to give a political lecture that I neither asked for nor need.
Vidor wrote:I walked out of "Zero Dark Thirty" ashamed for my country.
Whether or not you walked out doesn't change the fact that what was shown happened in real life. Watching 00:30 doesn't mean you support torture.
Oh, I know it happened in real life, that's why I was ashamed. Can't write it off as torture porn a-la "24".
Excellent movie, though. Jennifer Ehle continues to age like a fine wine.
I wasn't ashamed at all. I know this is the ultimate 'ends justifying the means' argument...but, [expletive] 'em. Those who conspired to kill Americans deserve what they got and the "torture" apparently helped get bin Laden. At further risk of sounding like a hillbilly...I liked how the assault on the compound was a nothing more than a straight kill mission - no "capture" pretext at all.
Not to get this movie thread too far off topic, but if it took torturing those in the organization which promoted flying planes into the WTC to get the intel needed to kill Bin Laden, so be it.
cardinalkarp wrote:Not to get this movie thread too far off topic, but if it took torturing those in the organization which promoted flying planes into the WTC to get the intel needed to kill Bin Laden, so be it.
Well, that's the thing, it didn't, ask John McCain.
