Mozeliak: "Some Changes" Coming For Cardinals, But Not A Rebuild

[thrill]

Patience required as Mo works his magic.

That magic being these guys somewhat bounce back and he uses that as the excuse to not sign an impact starter next offseason, then they revert to their crap form.

This is how he stays 10 steps ahead. It's the long game.

[MinorLeagueGuy]

https://theathletic.com/4704073/2023/07 ... ine-deals/

Article going over potential Yankees and Cardinals trades, since they both make logical sense for each other. Aside from Carlson, also Brendan Donovan and Nootbaar were both mentioned as players the Yankees would be interested in and even though the Cardinals would like to keep them and consider them part of their core (Specifically Nootbaar). And said it would take a haul to get Nootbaar or Donovan from the Cardinals.

But she said ultimately their desperation for pitching need may win out, and they're going to have to part with pieces they didn't want to. And the Yankees desperately need hitting, so they may cave to demands.

But we have basically pending FA's that are pitchers, with a couple/few position players that arent going to be here in 2024(DeJong). We are looking to trade those pending pitchers for cost controlled pitchers; that is what this Deadline should be focusing on. Any position players we have that other teams are interested in can take a backseat to selling off Flaherty, Monty, Hicks, Stratton, etc. We can approach the Noots, Donovans, and Carlsons this offseason, there is no pressing need to recoup value there because they will still be here in November/December. UNLESS those position players are going somewhere for the pitching we will eventually need to fill out 2024 rotation, Im not focusing on them. Can they be added to a package already headlined be Monty or Jack? Yes. But getting value out of the guys that are not signable this coming offseason, should be the focus.

"You want Edman/Donovan? Well, you need to take one of these pitchers in the package, that just got bigger because we added a position player. So give us better pitching (prospects) in return because we dont want to part with guys we control."

This FO should not be in a "cave" situation. You've lost control of things you CAN control if you find yourself in that scenario.

[ghostrunner]

Some interesting stuff going on with our pitching and it seems like Haltz is right about the defense making the pitching seem worse.

This is going by Fangraphs' breakdown of Starters and Relievers:

Starters:

K/9 - 7.26 (28th)
BB/9 - 3.06 (18th)
ERA - 4.70 (24th)
FIP - 4.35 (15th)
XFIP - 4.55 (24th)

Relievers:

K/9 - 9.6 (8th)
BB/9 - 4.04 (23rd)
ERA - 4.43 (25th)
FIP - 3.94 (7th)
XFIP - 4.07 (10th)

The gap btw ERA and FIP on the relievers is huge. Walks really hurting, which was clear already.

[cardsfantx]

Let me pose this question: even if Mozeliak freezes his seller initiative with the goal of winning the division – does it really matter? First of all, STL is 10 games out of first despite the 16-10 stretch. And to put that in perspective, consider this: when the Redbirds had the NL’s worst winning percentage and were 16 games under .500 on June 16, they were 8 and ½ out of first place. Yes. They really were. Even though they’ve been winning for about a month now, their deficit has only gotten worse!

https://www.scoopswithdannymac.com/bern ... ller-mode/

BTW the brewers already won again today, so we're now 10.5 games out before our game tonight

[Magneto2.0]

https://theathletic.com/4704073/2023/07 ... ine-deals/

Article going over potential Yankees and Cardinals trades, since they both make logical sense for each other. Aside from Carlson, also Brendan Donovan and Nootbaar were both mentioned as players the Yankees would be interested in and even though the Cardinals would like to keep them and consider them part of their core (Specifically Nootbaar). And said it would take a haul to get Nootbaar or Donovan from the Cardinals.

But she said ultimately their desperation for pitching need may win out, and they're going to have to part with pieces they didn't want to. And the Yankees desperately need hitting, so they may cave to demands.

But we have basically pending FA's that are pitchers, with a couple/few position players that arent going to be here in 2024(DeJong). We are looking to trade those pending pitchers for cost controlled pitchers; that is what this Deadline should be focusing on. Any position players we have that other teams are interested in can take a backseat to selling off Flaherty, Monty, Hicks, Stratton, etc. We can approach the Noots, Donovans, and Carlsons this offseason, there is no pressing need to recoup value there because they will still be here in November/December. UNLESS those position players are going somewhere for the pitching we will eventually need to fill out 2024 rotation, Im not focusing on them. Can they be added to a package already headlined be Monty or Jack? Yes. But getting value out of the guys that are not signable this coming offseason, should be the focus.

"You want Edman/Donovan? Well, you need to take one of these pitchers in the package, that just got bigger because we added a position player. So give us better pitching (prospects) in return because we dont want to part with guys we control."

This FO should not be in a "cave" situation. You've lost control of things you CAN control if you find yourself in that scenario.

I get we're you're coming from, I think their point in the article is more that in order to get those cost controlled pitchers they're craving, more than likely Nootbaar and Donovan are going to be the selling point, more than a Flaherty or Monty who are free agents after the year. The trade for pitching is more than likely going to be from an offense deficient team that's in a pennant race looking to fill a hole in their offense.

Now there could also be teams that are looking for guys like Monty and Flaherty who they hope can insert in the rotation during their run into and in the playoffs for the next few months and are willing to sacrifice some of their young pitching who are close to major league ready. But I'm not sure Monty or Flaherty are viewed as enough of difference makers to warrant a team doing that. We'll see.

Flaherty and Monty will definitely get traded but they may go for guys who will help us into 2025 and beyond, more than 2024. While I think Donovan and Nootbaar might get us guys who will have an immediate impact in the rotation.

[Slider]

With this division and this win streak; I would say with rose colored glasses on, it is possible to stick with the reboot game plan at the deadline and still make the playoffs. That is, if the correct trades are made. The win streak should not change the course at the deadline. If MO pulls off another 2011 trade deadline he will look like the ultimate mastermind.

[cardsfantx]

With this division and this win streak; I would say with rose colored glasses on, it is possible to stick with the reboot game plan at the deadline and still make the playoffs. That is, if the correct trades are made. The win streak should not change the course at the deadline. If MO pulls off another 2011 trade deadline he will look like the ultimate mastermind.

I don’t think so

We’ve won 6 in a row and are still 10 games out

MIL and STL are both 8-2 in the last 10 games, so we’ve made up no ground in the standings

[Slider]

With this division and this win streak; I would say with rose colored glasses on, it is possible to stick with the reboot game plan at the deadline and still make the playoffs. That is, if the correct trades are made. The win streak should not change the course at the deadline. If MO pulls off another 2011 trade deadline he will look like the ultimate mastermind.

I don’t think so

We’ve won 6 in a row and are still 10 games out

MIL and STL are both 8-2 in the last 10 games, so we’ve made up no ground in the standings

Like I said, should not change the plan. Also, I stated Rose colored glasses and lastly making playoffs includes WC. 8.5 back and teams in front of us are struggling. WC is more obtainable though not likely. Everything would have to be perfect scenario; hence don’t change the gameplan.

[cardsfantx]

With this division and this win streak; I would say with rose colored glasses on, it is possible to stick with the reboot game plan at the deadline and still make the playoffs. That is, if the correct trades are made. The win streak should not change the course at the deadline. If MO pulls off another 2011 trade deadline he will look like the ultimate mastermind.

I don’t think so

We’ve won 6 in a row and are still 10 games out

MIL and STL are both 8-2 in the last 10 games, so we’ve made up no ground in the standings

Like I said, should not change the plan. Also, I stated Rose colored glasses and lastly making playoffs includes WC. 8.5 back and teams in front of us are struggling. WC is more obtainable though not likely. Everything would have to be perfect scenario; hence don’t change the gameplan.

My apologies, I thought you meant not selling off our main assets, by a reboot

I’m trading every FA to be; Monty, Flaherty, Hicks, Stratton, Dejong (has the options)….and basically anyone but Gorman, Donovan, Walker, and Arenado. Everyone else should be available.

If we do that, even just the FA to be, I don’t see how we can continue to win. And I don’t think those FA to be will bring any meaningful help to the rotation for 2024, but it’s better than letting them walk for nothing or a comp pick.

[phins]

The bullpen cost us this season (and yes, Mo deserves blame for this).

Happy to read this part in parentheses.