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tothebeach08 wrote:I have tons of friends from Pakistan, but who live here now and are US citizens. They are scared to death of Obama. They are convinced he is going to bomb their country.

Tell them not to worry. he won't have enough money left to afford the rockets after he gets done paying for education and health care and alternative energy sources.

/joeybomb

jim wrote:

docellis wrote:i don't understand why health care is a right.

I don't understand how it isn't. WIth the wealth in this country, how can we not treat our sick? It a moral responsibility to me.

i think health care is something we pay for, and should pay for, I guess. maybe it is semantics, but are people actually NOT getting medical treatment?

tothebeach08 wrote:I have tons of friends from Pakistan, but who live here now and are US citizens. They are scared to death of Obama. They are convinced he is going to bomb their country. Their families who remain in Pakistan feel the same way. The fear they have is that he will order bombing, creating disasterous conditions including ruined infrastructure, lack of food and water, and obviously killing their people. They think McCain will bomb everywhere else, but Obama will bomb them.

Obama's comments on Pakistan have been terrible.

docellis wrote:

jim wrote:

docellis wrote:i don't understand why health care is a right.

I don't understand how it isn't. WIth the wealth in this country, how can we not treat our sick? It a moral responsibility to me.

i think health care is something we pay for, and should pay for, I guess. maybe it is semantics, but are people actually NOT getting medical treatment?

Absolutely. Not only that, if you do get treatment it depends on your insurance what kind you get. People are literally dying because of their health care coverage.

It's a national disgrace.

docellis wrote:

jim wrote:

docellis wrote:i don't understand why health care is a right.

I don't understand how it isn't. WIth the wealth in this country, how can we not treat our sick? It a moral responsibility to me.

i think health care is something we pay for, and should pay for, I guess. maybe it is semantics, but are people actually NOT getting medical treatment?

Well, it's semantics, but "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" are the main rights we accept as ours as Americans. Health care being connected to protecting/preserving the "life" part, no?

EDIT: Note I'm not a supporter of universal health care. I do think the current system is a bunch of BS, and it would be very beneficial to take the insurance companies completely out of it if we could.

docellis wrote:

jim wrote:

docellis wrote:i don't understand why health care is a right.

I don't understand how it isn't. WIth the wealth in this country, how can we not treat our sick? It a moral responsibility to me.

i think health care is something we pay for, and should pay for, I guess. maybe it is semantics, but are people actually NOT getting medical treatment?

I think the problem is that the people who pay for healthcare (us) get stuck w/ the high costs because the dead beats that don't have it still go to the dr. and get treatment.

I don't think its really a right to have health care (because at times I've not had it and yes it can suck if you get sick) but I'm not really sure how to fix the problem.

cardinalkarp wrote:

docellis wrote:

jim wrote:

docellis wrote:i don't understand why health care is a right.

I don't understand how it isn't. WIth the wealth in this country, how can we not treat our sick? It a moral responsibility to me.

i think health care is something we pay for, and should pay for, I guess. maybe it is semantics, but are people actually NOT getting medical treatment?

I think the problem is that the people who pay for healthcare (us) get stuck w/ the high costs because the dead beats that don't have it still go to the dr. and get treatment.

So what? I'm fine paying for a few deadbeats if it means someone that needs it gets it.

docellis wrote:i think health care is something we pay for, and should pay for, I guess.

We will pay for it one way or another no matter what system is chosen. That's not really the issue.

Arthur Dent wrote:

docellis wrote:i don't understand why health care is a right.

This seems like an unproductive way to discuss the issue. Who do you think should not get health care?

I agree more with doc here. But, the system is so irrevocably [expletive] right now that it needs to be fixed before it's ignored or left alone.

Basically, the way it works as I understand it and from what I've seen, you go to a doctor. That doctor charges say $150 and you pay your $20 co pay or whatever. So the insurance is responsible for $130. Then, the insurance says "No. You can't charge that much, we'll pay you $50" and that is what the doctor gets. His options are to either not accept patients with that insurance (and they're all basically the same....so he'd/she'd have no patients) or accept what the insurance gives him. But, if you have no insurance, you get the entire bill for $150.

That might not be right, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. But, I just had my ACL replaced and seeing the statements from the doctors was outrageous. They charged something like $20K for the surgery. The insurance paid them ~$3K and wrote off 16.5K leaving me with ~$500. But, without it, from what I can tell, I would have had like $20K in bills to pay, and that's how it is for people without insurance. That's ridiculous, and there's something just insanely wrong in that picture. I guess the doctors have to charge that much since they only get a % of it as the insurance writes it down....but come on.

jim wrote:

cardinalkarp wrote:

docellis wrote:

jim wrote:

docellis wrote:i don't understand why health care is a right.

I don't understand how it isn't. WIth the wealth in this country, how can we not treat our sick? It a moral responsibility to me.

i think health care is something we pay for, and should pay for, I guess. maybe it is semantics, but are people actually NOT getting medical treatment?

I think the problem is that the people who pay for healthcare (us) get stuck w/ the high costs because the dead beats that don't have it still go to the dr. and get treatment.

So what? I'm fine paying for a few deadbeats if it means someone that needs it gets it.

So you're fine paying for those that decide they don't feel like getting a job (and healthcare) and go to the doctor because they got sick.