The Third Man wrote:So he should just put his faith in the organization and sweat it out? That's silly. 7 years isn't a drop in the bucket.
Chris Paul asked him to stay in Cleveland with Byron Scott. Help was on the way.
And, no matter what some people might think, he was on a team that had the most regular season wins the last two years. It wasn't like a team of 4 middling D-Leaguers. They didn't need 4 players to be competitive. Even after I defended him in the series loss to Boston, it's not like that couldn't have easily fallen the other way.
It'd be like Albert losing in the NLDS last year, then going to DH for the Yanks while Teix plays first because the Cardinals can't win him a title. The Cardinals wouldn't have been prohibitive favorites in the central without Albert, but it's not like the rest of the team is replacement level.
The Third Man wrote:So he should just put his faith in the organization and sweat it out? That's silly. 7 years isn't a drop in the bucket.
Certainly would be more gratifying, in my opinion. Again, there's something to be said for the PURSUIT of a championship, and cometing against your fiercest peers, rather than teaming up with them.
Socnorb11 wrote:I think you're talking about when Jordan "took a break", not when he left the Bulls for good. I was talking about the late-90's.
His FG% went from 45% in his last year with Jordan, to 43% (easily the lowest of his career) the year after Jordan. Turnovers per game went up. Blocks per game went down. Points per game dropped by about 25%, despite playing more minutes.
He was a player who relied on exceptional athleticism turning 33 years old after playing 31,000 NBA minutes. I think we can forgive him for declining. The idea that Pippen isn't a top fifty player, or greater, in NBA history is flat-out wrong.
Socnorb11 wrote:Certainly would be more gratifying, in my opinion. Again, there's something to be said for the PURSUIT of a championship, and cometing against your fiercest peers, rather than teaming up with them.
Well, that's a fair opinion, but it's your opinion. LeBron apparently disagrees. Not sure why this makes him a Bad Guy.
Transmogrified Tiger wrote:LeBron comes off awful in this whole deal(not returning a single message to Cleveland and having the front office find out the decision on air? Really?). But the whole bit about him being selfish or a coward is some of the most ridiculous stuff out there. The same people who would've laughed in his face for going to New York for going to a terrible team are now ripping him for deciding to go to a good one. Because apparently he has to go to a good team, but not too good a team, then he's a selfish coward. And yes, of course it's about HIM. It's his free agent contract. It was an overwrought circus that made a lot of people want to poke sharp things in their eyes and ears, but of course he's going to do what's best for him, just like every other player in the history of sport. "It's about HIM"...I mean, honestly. Read that aloud or something.
Who was laughing about him going to New York?
I think most objective people were pretty fair. MOST people agreed that the most "heroic" thing he could do was to stay with Cleveland, and win them a championship.
And that's fine if he wants to make it about HIM, but he should stop talking about how he sacrificed all that money to play for Miami, as if it was a heroic thing to do. He didnt' "sacrifice" anything. He traded money for a championship....... that's all.
Socnorb11 wrote:I think you're talking about when Jordan "took a break", not when he left the Bulls for good. I was talking about the late-90's.
His FG% went from 45% in his last year with Jordan, to 43% (easily the lowest of his career) the year after Jordan. Turnovers per game went up. Blocks per game went down. Points per game dropped by about 25%, despite playing more minutes.
He was a player who relied on exceptional athleticism turning 33 years old after playing 31,000 NBA minutes. I think we can forgive him for declining. The idea that Pippen isn't a top fifty player, or greater, in NBA history is flat-out wrong.
Fair enough. And I definitely think that Lebron needed some help. But I think that eventually he would have gotten a "Pippen" to his "Jordan".
I think it's one thing to climb aboard a championship wagon late in your career, when it's clearly to late for you to lead your own team to one. Lebron quit trying too soon, in my opinion.
I don't think we're really far apart. I won't be rooting for that Miami team (though I'll probably have fun watching them), and I would've been happier had he chosen Cleveland or Chicago. But I can't really blame him for going to play with two guys he is apparently very good friends with in a town with great night life, gorgeous women and beaches. Mostly I just think the personal opinions on LeBron as a human being are being overblown.
The Third Man wrote:But I can't really blame him for going to play with two guys he is apparently very good friends with in a town with great night life, gorgeous women and beaches.
I don't like this argument or the income tax one either. He can't live in Miami during the off-season? He can't party or find beautiful women in Cleveland? Maybe not as many as in Miami, but he already has one kid right? The night life and women have nothing to do with it. Playing with his two friends, I can understand a little. But he has lots of 'friends' in the NBA. He's going to Mello's wedding tomorrow. Chris Paul is apparently his best friend in the NBA. Both guys could have been potential additions to the Cavs to help them win a title. So I still put less weight in that.
And I believe that you have to pay income tax in each state you earned that, so while he'll save money since the majority of his games will be in Florida, he still has to pay taxes on games played outside of the state. And throw in sales/property tax should he move, or travel costs if he doesn't - the money is a wash (probably less in Miami).
I don't. But maybe he doesn't care about that anymore. Whether that's a failing or not, I don't know. But he's given himself a good shot to win several titles and he won't have to deal with lifting a team on his back. I don't think that makes him a "coward" or anything. I also don't think that if LeBron had a Pippen/McHale/Kareem/Shaq to his Jordan/Bird/Magic/Kobe that we're even having this conversation at the moment. Yeah, Jordan waited it out, but Jordan is possibly the most competitive great athlete in American sports history. Tim Duncan is an interesting point of comparison.
