European trip, no idea where to even start

[G. Keenan]

American has a non-stop Chicago-Venice and Rome-Chicago, so you could start in Venice and work your way south through Emilia-Romagna, Tuscany, then Lazio or Umbria to end up in Rome, or vice versa. You like cars, so you might be interested in the "motor valley" of Emilia-Romagna where you could check out Ferrari, Pagani, Lamborghini, Maserati, Ducati, and so on. You'll be able to see both the manufacturing of the cars on the line, as well as visit their museums to learn about the history of those companies as well as rotating collections of privately owned cars that are on loan to the museums. You can even drive them on a track or the road if you want. You could do this as a day trip from Bologna or overnight in Modena if you want to really get into it. Maybe eat at Osteria Francescana while in Modena if you want to ball out. It's also possible to visit smaller, private car collections in people's houses and estates if you go through the right channels.

Are you in to food and wine? So much to suggest in that regard, depending on the area. Italy is wonderful because you can take in a great diversity of cuisine, culture, history, architecture, art, and so on from one region or city to the next without having to go far. Italians are by and large very friendly and love to share their passions with curious people, whether that is about food, wine, cars, art, or whatever. You're also a farmer, so there are plenty of opportunities to visit farms and/or various producers of things like salumi, cheese, wine, grains, olive oil, and so on. France and Spain are similar, but larger with longer travel times between places, though still much less than we are used to here so not a problem.

The thing 33 is talking about is called a "coperto," a service charge to sit down at a cafe or restaurant and be served by a waiter vs. standing at the bar to drink your coffee or glass of wine or eat you panini or whatever. It is not some scam, just most tourists aren't aware that it exists. Likewise, being charged an unexpectedly large amount of money for a market priced piece of fish or beef is also not some conspiracy against tourists. Fish or beef listed at market price are sold per gram, not per pound, and the surprise bill is because the customers don't know this and/or don't think to ask before ordering. Again, not some scam, just people ordering without understanding what they are ordering. If you see something listed that way that you want to order just ask what it costs per gram and how many grams the piece of fish/beef weighs. If you don't feel comfortable asking, just order something else.

Tipping does not work the same in Italy or Europe generally as it does here. You are not expected to tip 20% in a restaurant. Just round up the bill to the nearest decimal. If you're lunch tab is €45, leave €50, for example. Same in a taxi. Just round up. If you want to tip more, go for it, but it will not make you look bad if you tip 10% or less.

By and large, avoid restaurants that have an English menu posted outside. It's possible to eat well at some of those restaurants, yes, but the existence of an English language menu outside the door tells you what clientele they are serving -- tourists. If you are having coffee at Caffe Florian in St. Mark's square, yeah, you're gonna pay €30 for two espressos, and they will tack on a charge for the live music that is performing that day. It claims to be the oldest cafe in the world and is in all the guidebooks so they can charge those rates.

Northern Italy and Southern Italy are very different in lots of ways and they talk sh*t about each other just like North vs. South here. In general, the south is much poorer and more agricultural than the north which also has its advantages if you want to see really traditional old-school ways of making wine or milling olives or fishing or whatever. Prices are also generally lower, with the exception of the Amalfi Coast. Puglia is wonderful if you want to get off the beaten track but still have enough infrastructure to get around without too much difficulty. If you want to get hardcore you could go to Calabria or Basilicata but I would not recommend that for a first visit.

Each time of year has its own virtues, but I would avoid the moths of July & August, especially August. September is probably the busiest month in Italy, Spain, France, or Portugal. October is a great month because you can catch the olive harvest in most places and it's the start of truffle season too.

From Chicago, Norwegian Air has a seasonal non-stop to Barcelona for cheap, in which case you could fly to Barcelona and spend some time there and on the Costa Brava before taking the train north to Narbonne or Toulouse to check out the Languedoc or further to Avignon in Provence, so you could combine Catalonia with southern France. The Catalan separatist movement is something to be aware of if considering Barcelona. Not that you will get tear gassed in a protest or anything, but it sucks when your vacation is interrupted by a protest occupying the airport and you're stuck there for days. Just ask zeus.

[Fat_Bulldog]

Some parts are probably a bit out of date but a good starting point is to probably get very familiar with National Lampoon's European Vacation.

[G. Keenan]

Some parts are probably a bit out of date but a good starting point is to probably get very familiar with National Lampoon's European Vacation.

Big Ben, Parliament.

[stlouie_lipp]

Some parts are probably a bit out of date but a good starting point is to probably get very familiar with National Lampoon's European Vacation.

Big Ben, Parliament.

Big Ben, Parliament.

[GeddyWrox]

I can't get left!

[Indu WangZi]

American has a non-stop Chicago-Venice and Rome-Chicago, so you could start in Venice and work your way south through Emilia-Romagna, Tuscany, then Lazio or Umbria to end up in Rome, or vice versa. You like cars, so you might be interested in the "motor valley" of Emilia-Romagna where you could check out Ferrari, Pagani, Lamborghini, Maserati, Ducati, and so on. You'll be able to see both the manufacturing of the cars on the line, as well as visit their museums to learn about the history of those companies as well as rotating collections of privately owned cars that are on loan to the museums. You can even drive them on a track or the road if you want. You could do this as a day trip from Bologna or overnight in Modena if you want to really get into it. Maybe eat at Osteria Francescana while in Modena if you want to ball out. It's also possible to visit smaller, private car collections in people's houses and estates if you go through the right channels.

Are you in to food and wine? So much to suggest in that regard, depending on the area. Italy is wonderful because you can take in a great diversity of cuisine, culture, history, architecture, art, and so on from one region or city to the next without having to go far. Italians are by and large very friendly and love to share their passions with curious people, whether that is about food, wine, cars, art, or whatever. You're also a farmer, so there are plenty of opportunities to visit farms and/or various producers of things like salumi, cheese, wine, grains, olive oil, and so on. France and Spain are similar, but larger with longer travel times between places, though still much less than we are used to here so not a problem.

The thing 33 is talking about is called a "coperto," a service charge to sit down at a cafe or restaurant and be served by a waiter vs. standing at the bar to drink your coffee or glass of wine or eat you panini or whatever. It is not some scam, just most tourists aren't aware that it exists. Likewise, being charged an unexpectedly large amount of money for a market priced piece of fish or beef is also not some conspiracy against tourists. Fish or beef listed at market price are sold per gram, not per pound, and the surprise bill is because the customers don't know this and/or don't think to ask before ordering. Again, not some scam, just people ordering without understanding what they are ordering. If you see something listed that way that you want to order just ask what it costs per gram and how many grams the piece of fish/beef weighs. If you don't feel comfortable asking, just order something else.

Tipping does not work the same in Italy or Europe generally as it does here. You are not expected to tip 20% in a restaurant. Just round up the bill to the nearest decimal. If you're lunch tab is €45, leave €50, for example. Same in a taxi. Just round up. If you want to tip more, go for it, but it will not make you look bad if you tip 10% or less.

By and large, avoid restaurants that have an English menu posted outside. It's possible to eat well at some of those restaurants, yes, but the existence of an English language menu outside the door tells you what clientele they are serving -- tourists. If you are having coffee at Caffe Florian in St. Mark's square, yeah, you're gonna pay €30 for two espressos, and they will tack on a charge for the live music that is performing that day. It claims to be the oldest cafe in the world and is in all the guidebooks so they can charge those rates.

Northern Italy and Southern Italy are very different in lots of ways and they talk sh*t about each other just like North vs. South here. In general, the south is much poorer and more agricultural than the north which also has its advantages if you want to see really traditional old-school ways of making wine or milling olives or fishing or whatever. Prices are also generally lower, with the exception of the Amalfi Coast. Puglia is wonderful if you want to get off the beaten track but still have enough infrastructure to get around without too much difficulty. If you want to get hardcore you could go to Calabria or Basilicata but I would not recommend that for a first visit.

Each time of year has its own virtues, but I would avoid the moths of July & August, especially August. September is probably the busiest month in Italy, Spain, France, or Portugal. October is a great month because you can catch the olive harvest in most places and it's the start of truffle season too.

From Chicago, Norwegian Air has a seasonal non-stop to Barcelona for cheap, in which case you could fly to Barcelona and spend some time there and on the Costa Brava before taking the train north to Narbonne or Toulouse to check out the Languedoc or further to Avignon in Provence, so you could combine Catalonia with southern France. The Catalan separatist movement is something to be aware of if considering Barcelona. Not that you will get tear gassed in a protest or anything, but it sucks when your vacation is interrupted by a protest occupying the airport and you're stuck there for days. Just ask zeus.

This is some excellent advice.

Costa Brava is awesome...Catalonia is a jewel. Visit Tossa de Mar...great town...delicious food..great beaches.

[lukethedrifter]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/06/arts ... &smtyp=cur

Upstairs, where Leonardo’s most famous work remains, is still a fiasco.

The Louvre houses the greatest collection of art anywhere in Europe, within a palace that is a masterpiece in its own right. It is, by some distance, the most popular museum in the world. In 2018 a record 10 million visitors, three-quarters of them foreign tourists, besieged the joint: up 25 percent on the previous year, and more than triple the attendance of the Centre Pompidou or the Musée d’Orsay.

Yet the Louvre is being held hostage by the Kim Kardashian of 16th-century Italian portraiture: the handsome but only moderately interesting Lisa Gherardini, better known (after her husband) as La Gioconda, whose renown so eclipses her importance that no one can even remember how she got famous in the first place.

Some 80 percent of visitors, according to the Louvre’s research, are here for the Mona Lisa — and most of them leave unhappy. Content in the 20th century to be merely famous, she has become, in this age of mass tourism and digital narcissism, a black hole of anti-art who has turned the museum inside out.

[greenback44]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/06/arts ... &smtyp=cur

Upstairs, where Leonardo’s most famous work remains, is still a fiasco.

I will defend the Louvre's honor here -- it has an absurd collection of art that you can barely imagine in a midwestern cow town -- but I will readily concede that, unless (a) you miss mosh pits or (b) you value the social experience of comparing and contrasting your sucky experiences of the Mona Lisa with the sucky experience of relatives and co-workers (glass case! long wait! swarms of selfie sticks! etc.), the ML is a waste of time.

[33anda3rd]

I feel like you gotta go see the Louvre. It's awesome. The first time I saw the Eiffel Tower I was like "I get it, I know what it looks like, it's tall, big whoop" but then that first time walking up Rue d'Université the first real view of it even from a couple blocks away I was just floored by how magnificent it is. Louvre is the same, I thought I'm gonna hate it, it's gonna be crowded, too many tourists, the old joke from Godard that's the second best scene in Bande a part about breaking the Americans' record for seeing the Louvre in 9 minutes, it's gonna suck. I went and it was crowded and there were tourists rushing around but it was AWESOME.

2nd best scene in Bande a part

[SHOW]

Best scene in Bande a part

[SHOW]

[lukethedrifter]

There will be approx 1 million times more people at the Louvre. Also, I didn’t hate the Louvre. It was awesome. The Mona Lisa experience was totally underwhelming. I wouldn’t waste several hours trying to get a bad, crowded look at it. That’s all. Too much else to do in Paris.