mental illness/ suicide

[GeddyWrox]

A good friend of mine was found dead in his car at a gas station in a small town far from where he lives over the weekend, so...I don't know. Last week a cousin died of a drug overdose. Not great.

Jeez! Zeus, I'm so sorry! That's awful!

[IMADreamer]

A good friend of mine was found dead in his car at a gas station in a small town far from where he lives over the weekend, so...I don't know. Last week a cousin died of a drug overdose. Not great.

I am so sorry to hear that. That's awful.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Mrs. AW's mother is slowly going...idk. She's just off.

Her dad was a U2 pilot and died during a flight (under some cloud of suspicion according to Mrs. AW's mother...though it seems to be a pretty straightforward story: pilot became unresponsive at high altitude during flight due to decompression/lack of oxygen, plane crashed in belize and was recovered with body). Regardless, she was 2 at the time. She's been married and divorced 6 times. Very narcissistic, unable to take blame for anything. Has no friends that last more than a couple months. Has trouble getting along with her kids.

One time she brought a guy over to our house, uninvited, and I had to kick him out because he was trying to hurt our kid (weird story) but I, calmly as possible, told him to get the [expletive] out. Mrs. AW's mom, instead of trusting me - husband of her daughter, father of her grandchild, who she had known for like 8 years at the time - took the side of this [expletive] stick who she had known for a week, so I kicked her ass out as well because she's a [expletive] idiot. Two days later she shows up for thanksgiving, uninvited, and tried to tell my parents who had travelled in for the holiday what an ass hole I was. Made a huge deal of it. And, my dad quietly told her he trusted me, took a sip of his beer and carried on talking to me, which infuriated her. So, she had to leave...again.

All that to say, her baseline normal isn't exactly stable. But, mostly passable. She's held a job for the past 8 years w/o much of an issue. Can live a decent life.

But, lately, she's starting to be incredibly off. Got in a physical altercation at work the cause of which was unable to be determined so...nothing happened. Thinks the government is surveilling her (stuff in the walls and stuff). Thinks it's probably her dad (the one that died when she was 2) and he's alive but unable to contact her because...the government. She called her mom a couple weeks ago asking her to exhume the body so she can see it because she doesn't believe he's dead. Threatened to kill herself if she didn't and of course her mom wtells her [expletive] no. Has had multiple belligerent phone calls with her siblings. At one point, police were called to do a welfare check on her by one of her sisters though I don't know the full story of that. Another time, Mrs. AW's grandma who is a real POS in her own right called Mrs. AW to go check on Mrs. AW's mom at like 1 am. And get her into therapy. Thanks for dumping all your kids problems on Mrs. AW instead of being a mother, but I digress.

Anyway, Mrs. AW's mom has been in therapy for years. Obviously to no avail. She's a narcissist. She won't take any responsibility for her actions. Who knows what she's telling her therapist, obviously we don't have access to that.

Not sure what can be done. But, she's a ticking time bomb. Mrs. AW tried to address all this today but her mom literally tried to fight her.

I told Mrs. AW we just need to keep the kids away from her (which will probably exacerbate her problems) and stay the [expletive] away from her.

Because...I literally have no idea what to do.

[Superorganism]

Honestly, estrangement has been the only thing I’ve seen that works when dealing with people this toxic and personality disordered. And by “works” I mean putting oneself and kids first and not letting them affect you through cutting them out of your life.

Once the narcissists hit middle age+, the path to redemption and change seems very very remote. I’m no mental health expert. Just an expert in [expletive] up family members.

Not sure how open your wife is to that…and I don’t mean to be pessimistic/extreme…but she’s in “treatment” and it’s not working. How much can you all be expected to tolerate?

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Honestly, estrangement has been the only thing I’ve seen that works when dealing with people this toxic and personality disordered. And by “works” I mean putting oneself and kids first and not letting them affect you through cutting them out of your life.

Once the narcissists hit middle age+, the path to redemption and change seems very very remote. I’m no mental health expert. Just an expert in [expletive] up family members.

Not sure how open your wife is to that…and I don’t mean to be pessimistic/extreme…but she’s in “treatment” and it’s not working. How much can you all be expected to tolerate?

That's a great point.

I just...don't know. Seems like a really drastic thing, cutting a parent/grandparent out of our lives.

Mrs. AW and her mom will go months without talking to each other because they'll have a fight and take time to cool off. Mrs. AW is always ready to be done with their relationship, though, after a couple months or a couple years or however long, they always make up and become close enough to piss each other off again.

If the kids weren't around, I doubt she would even be involved in our lives. Not due to any of the stuff previously mentioned, but because she'd probably live somewhere else, in perpetual search of husband #7, then 8, 9, etc, and never come around. But, our kids love her. She spoils them. Not necessarily with love and attention, but with presents, candy, and screen time. Which probably isn't great anyway.

Just sad.

The optimist in me thinks like....hey, we can help her. Like we can help alcoholics. Or drug addicts. Or people depressed. Why can't we help her get over whatever it is that's ailing her? Though, I reckon all that starts with the people that need help actually being able to open up to the fact that they need it. Something she is completely incapable of.

I'll expand on the story of the guy she brought over that one time to illustrate just how [expletive] incapable of admitting wrongdoing. Ever. Period.

Mrs. AW and I have a rule, pretty straightforward. Don't bring guys you're dating around unless you've been dating 6 months. So we don't have to constantly explain to the kids why Grandma's boyfriend is no longer around.

She brings over this guy she's 'known' for a week. Mrs. AW's brother, aka Mrs. AW's mother's son, and his wife were in town and staying with us. And, she wanted to see her son. Understandable. Still, don't bring a date. IDK why she would even do it especially since her son was in town. Whatever.

The brother brought his dog. Fine. We're all hanging out. Everyone's talking and what not. I'm cooking. The guy the MIL brought over, call him [expletive] stick, picks up a tennis ball and starts playing fetch with the dog. Little AW is hanging out too, in the same area but kind of off by himself playing with something. [expletive] stick is now by himself, about 20' from everyone playing fetch with the dog. Fine. At first the throws he makes are into an open space. Then closer to Little AW. Then closer to Little AW. Then closer still. I quit what I'm doing and just watch what's happening because I was like this is unbelievable. He's going to get the dog to run into Little AW. A couple more throws and he throws the ball right at LAW. But the dog gets the ball before it reaches him. Un [expletive] believable. Next throw was harder and right at him. Bam, dog runs into LAW.

Little AW starts crying. Brother in law goes to get the dog, really upset with the dog. Mother in law goes to get Little AW to see why he's crying. Mrs. AW comes out from whatever she was doing. Loud noises. Confusion all over the place. Except me. I am staring a hole in this guys [expletive] head and he's kind of off to the side, smirking with what he's created.

Until he finally sees me staring at him. And, the color drains out of his face. Loud enough for everyone to hear, I was like... Are you going to tell them what happened, or should I?

He starts stammering about the dog running into the kid. I was like, well you got the ending. How did it start. And, I'm so mad the whole [expletive] scene has gone from a crying kid and questions and the brother scolding his dog and his wife scolding the dog to dead silence. Even Little AW quit crying to watch the show. And this guy is so. [expletive]. scared. he can't stammer out another word.

And, I'm start involuntarily growling which happens when I get pretty upset. I walk over to where [expletive] stick is standing. Proceed to tell the story from a couple paragraphs above. Throw over here, then closer, then closer, then right at him then harder and right at him until bam. I was like poor Brother and brother's wife, they think their dog attacked Little AW. Poor little AW, a dog ran into him. But, it was all caused by purposeful actions of this [expletive] stick. I asked if he had anything to say. And, he was like a deer in headlights. No words. No movement. As a matter of fact, everyone was in such disbelief that no one said anything. Or move. All just staring at [expletive] stick.

Until I was like. Welp, I'll give you about 10 seconds to get the [expletive] out of here before I break your [expletive] skull open on the [expletive] concrete and let you bleed out in misery. Then he ran to the car. Except the MIL has the keys.

She comes up to me and starts berating me for talking to him like that. I'm like...excuse me. I thought I handled it pretty well. Didn't hurt him. Astutely observed the entire situation. Gave a comprehensive report. Kindly gave him an opportunity to leave.

Nope, I owed him an apology and an invitation to come back in with a guarantee I wouldn't hurt him and I owed her an apology for embarassing her.

Uh huh. When I pointed out he hurt my kid on purpose and no telling what would have happened to the dog had the brother believed his dog hurt a kid, she flat out called me a liar. So, I was like, well, this conversation isn't going anywhere. Please take him away and don't come back.

She starts screaming and yelling. I just ignored her to the extent possible. She's calling [expletive] stick, telling him to come back in. And, I told her I would [expletive] kill him if he stepped one inch inside the door. She threatens to call the cops. I was like, please do. It's my house. You're not welcome. He's not welcome. You are both aware you are not welcome, and it's time for you to go.

Mil starts saying it’s Mrs. AWs house too and Mrs. AW calmly says I didn’t see it, but AW clearly did, I’ve never seen him this angry, and we’re together on this. Plus a few choice words about [expletive] stick. (She’s my soulmate).

More screaming and yelling until she finally leaves some 10 minutes later as I, Mrs. AW, Mrs. AW's brother, Mrs. AW's brother's wife, and the dog refused to talk to her.

The next day I sent her a text saying I was not sorry, but everything I said was 100% accurate and she should avoid that guy like the plague. Reminded her that, lo and behold, we have a rule in place that she can't' bring dates over until they've been together 6 months. And, her response was more/less to [expletive] off. He wasn't a date, he was just a friend. And it's disrespectful for me to tell her that she can't bring friends over.

And, this is all typical [expletive]. Ignoring the whole psycho part of this guy, she just blatanly ignores a simple rule and when called out on it, can't just be like...yeah, my bad. Instead, defends herself by saying well technically it wasn't a date which even that is a lie.

[expletive] her. Man, I am kind of glad I got to retell that story. It makes me so mad even to this day. Mrs. AW was like, I can't believe you let Little AW get run over by the dog. And, I was like...good point. But, it's a dog and a kid running into each other. Not exactly dangerous. I had to know.

And then she comes over to tell my parents what happened when they get in town. Something i wasn’t going to tell them because it makes her look so bad, but her version is more/less a pretty version of my story. Aka I lost my temper bc her ‘friend’ accidentally threw the ball too close to Little AW and the dog was so out of control it couldn’t control where it went.

So then I had to have the same argument again. With my mom and dad obviously taking my side. Once she left, mrs aw kind of sheepishly apologized. Obviously embarrassed. Later on my dad was asking what really happened. I was like no I didn’t embellish anything. What I said was spot on. He goes, well, I wish you’d have [expletive] him up. And I said see. I handled it well!

Then [expletive] stick and MIL broke up a week later and she agreed he was a psycho. But no apologies. No apologies for bringing him over in the first place. No apologies for calling me a liar. No apologies for embarrassing Mrs AW in front of my parents. Just a quick laugh about agreeing that he was weird and move on.

[expletive] her.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Feels like that was one big rationalization of why it’s beat to cut ties with her. Still feels bad and wrong.

Tried to do an intervention of sorts with her but none of her siblings, mother, or even son care enough about her to attend. Hence why mrs aw had the conversation with her today. Think I’m going to do it myself so as not to worry about physical violence.

But I don’t know what the goal is. Mrs AW never even got around to it with her but she wanted to attend therapy with her. I think that’s my goal. Idk.

Saying “hey can I email your therapist that you’ve threatened suicide, want to exhume your dad that’s been dead for 60 years, are incapable of taking criticism, and are a complete narcissist...please fix” seems like a non starter.

[GeddyWrox]

God, that's terrible. I can't fathom any of that. And you handled that as well as humanly possible. All of it. Kudos.

Just based on what you describe, my opinion is to cut ties. And I don't say that lightly. Just because someone is a parent doesn't mean you or Mrs AW have to submit to abuse like that. It's probably one of the toughest things you'll ever have to deal with. I'm sorry that it's that way. I don't blame you for continuing to try either. I guess I am just trying to say it's OK to cut out toxic family. Even parents.

[heyzeus]

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this AW, and obviously I'm no medical professional, but it definitely sounds like cutting ties with your MIL is necessary for your family's well being. Both mentally and physically. Your mention of a physical altercation at work is worrisome, on top of the other behavior.

Unfortunately I have a lot of experience with narcissistic parents as well. The important thing to keep in mind is that you can't control them, nor can you save them. The help they get/don't get is ultimately what they choose or don't choose to get. All you can do, and it will hurt to do it, is protect yourself and your family by insulating yourselves from the behavior. And you seem to know really well that that is your top priority in life.

[thrill]

Sadly, this is not too far off from how my mom would behave if she and my dad weren't still married. Very similar dynamic with my sister.

The thing about narcissists is that they never understand why people who see through them create such strong boundaries, and they never will. Once someone starts putting up healthy boundaries, those relationships will crack and usually fracture. It's sad, but for people like you and your wife, it's the only healthy choice. It comes with plenty of regrets when you think about what your wife and kids should be getting from their mother/grandma, but she ain't ever going to be that kind of mother or grandma, so it's usually better to take that regret and cut your losses.

[Superorganism]

Honestly, estrangement has been the only thing I’ve seen that works when dealing with people this toxic and personality disordered. And by “works” I mean putting oneself and kids first and not letting them affect you through cutting them out of your life.

Once the narcissists hit middle age+, the path to redemption and change seems very very remote. I’m no mental health expert. Just an expert in [expletive] up family members.

Not sure how open your wife is to that…and I don’t mean to be pessimistic/extreme…but she’s in “treatment” and it’s not working. How much can you all be expected to tolerate?

That's a great point.

I just...don't know. Seems like a really drastic thing, cutting a parent/grandparent out of our lives.

Mrs. AW and her mom will go months without talking to each other because they'll have a fight and take time to cool off. Mrs. AW is always ready to be done with their relationship, though, after a couple months or a couple years or however long, they always make up and become close enough to piss each other off again.

If the kids weren't around, I doubt she would even be involved in our lives. Not due to any of the stuff previously mentioned, but because she'd probably live somewhere else, in perpetual search of husband #7, then 8, 9, etc, and never come around. But, our kids love her. She spoils them. Not necessarily with love and attention, but with presents, candy, and screen time. Which probably isn't great anyway.

This is textbook stuff for dysfunctional adult parent/adult child relationships. It's cyclical in nature and comparable to the cycle of abuse. The spoiling of the grandkids is also typical for narcissistic parents/grandparents. Candy and presents in lieu of emotions. Buying a relationship because they are incapable or unwilling to connect.

I snipped the anecdote for ease of reading. That's all the evidence I need to suggest making a big change. Things happen. Unforeseen things. This was straight negligence if not unintentional. Then the lack of remorse. It's one thing for MIL to cause you inconvenience, or your wife, but it could've given your kid a TBI or something.

I can't imagine MIL accepting a relationship with heavy, strict boundaries. I would require those to have any chance of staying connected with MIL.

I understand the hesitation to cut off family members. It took me years to work up to that decision. Literally decades. A therapist told me something like, "if they don't treat you like family, are they family?" and that's all it took. Family in name only isn't family to me. It's a matter of works and efforts.