Cecil

[Swirls]

I don't completely get the extreme level of internet angst directed at the dentist. The folks that run the illegal hunting operation, sure. But this is an activity that Ernest Hemingway would have enjoyed the [expletive] out of, minus the $50k price tag. I'm guessing a reasonable percentage of the outraged internetists love them some Hemingway.

The level of angst, internet and otherwise, is based on the fact that the lion was lured out of a protected sanctuary, shot with a bow & arrow, did not die but suffered for 40 hours before being shot with a rifle, skinned and beheaded.

I would be willing to bet that anything Ernest Hemingway killed was wild and not living in a protected area. And I wouldn't have agreed with that either.

I understand the outrage; however, from what you listed above, how much of it was really the dentist's fault? The majority of the blame should be attributed to his guides. They were either nefarious or irresponsible, but either way they put this dentist in a tough position. To my knowledge, there's nothing to indicate that this dentist knew that he was hunting a protected animal from a sanctuary, so I don't think it's fair to frame the argument like that. I know they lured the animal out of the park, but they probably never relayed that fact to the dentist.

Also, for the record, I don't like hunting. I've never been hunting and I have no interest in ever going. I also hate guns. I've never even shot one, and have no interest in ever owning one.

He should have known it was protected, if nothing else, after he had killed it and consciously destroyed the GPS collar the lion had been wearing.

[TGantz]

Even hunting deer in Missouri, there are things you have to consider. Seasons, tags (permits), area... Etc. I would imagine there was 10x that amount of red tape hunting for lions near a lion sanctuary. This guy absolutely knew what he was doing. So did his guides. That's why it cost $50k.

[Jocephus]

^ agreed

plus, i would hope there's a difference between deer & lion hunting that a hunter would be clearly aware of

[Bo Hart]

Even hunting deer in Missouri, there are things you have to consider. Seasons, tags (permits), area... Etc. I would imagine there was 10x that amount of red tape hunting for lions near a lion sanctuary. This guy absolutely knew what he was doing. So did his guides. That's why it cost $50k.

No, it cost $50k because the guy is flying halfway across the country, hunting one of the most dangerous and exotic animals in existence, enlisting the service of experts, staying there for multiple nights, etc. Look at these prices for safari hunting. $50k doesn't seem unreasonable at all (look especially at the trophy fees at the bottom of the page). Insinuating that it "cost $50k because it was illegal" is just baseless.

How would Palmer even know if he was near a sanctuary or not? He's from Minnesota! That's the whole point of enlisting a tour guide. You defer to their knowledge and expertise, because you trust that they know all of these esoteric rules surrounding a hunt like this. His guide publicly said, "Palmer is a totally innocent party to this whole thing, and he has conducted and bought a hunt from me that was legitimate." What incentive would there be in not throwing Palmer under the bus? Palmer's reputation is destroyed, he could easily scapegoat him right now but instead he insists he's innocent.

Did you see the quote from the local newspaper? "It is not an overstatement that almost 99.99 percent of Zimbabweans didn’t know about [Cecil] until Monday. Now we have just learnt, thanks to the British media, that we had Africa’s most famous lion all along, an icon!" The story is being sensationalized.

I think it's awful that a lion was killed. I don't like hunting, and I don't like guns. The last thing I'm trying to do is defend either of those things. However, many countries -- Zimbabwe included -- issue permits for lion hunting. As disgusting as I find it, lion hunting is legal. My opinion is that Palmer thought he was paying for a sanctioned hunt. I know that's not a popular opinion, but it's not at all hard to believe he could've been the victim of circumstances.

[lukethedrifter]

Don't you think that if your idea of fun is hunting endangered an exotic animals that is incumbent upon you to determine if you're doing it legally?

[Bo Hart]

Don't you think that if your idea of fun is hunting endangered an exotic animals that is incumbent upon you to determine if you're doing it legally?

Again, if I'm paying a guide $50k, I would trust that they would understand and abide by the intricacies of local law. That's part of what I'm paying them for. It's analogous to hiring a lawyer to help decipher legalese.

[lukethedrifter]

Don't you think that if your idea of fun is hunting endangered an exotic animals that is incumbent upon you to determine if you're doing it legally?

Again, if I'm paying a guide $50k, I would trust that they would understand and abide by the intricacies of local law. That's part of what I'm paying them for. It's analogous to hiring a lawyer to help decipher legalese.

Sorry but lousy analogy. This guy is one of the world's big time big game hunters. The others involved sure trying to make a buck. However.
Maybe we should blame the lion for being hungry.

This whole thing doesn't exist if douchebag trophy collectors don't.

[Bo Hart]

Sorry but lousy analogy. This guy is one of the world's big time big game hunters. The others involved sure trying to make a buck. However.
Maybe we should blame the lion for being hungry.

Well, okay, I disagree. I think it's a good analogy. This guy was in Zimbabwe for Christ's sake. It's not unreasonable at all to think he's going to defer to the expertise or insight of someone that lives and works there.

Look, this Palmer guy seems like a douchebag. He has a sketchy history. However, every time a story like this comes to light, our society and social media are quick to vilify. Collectively, we are really bad at polarizing individuals that come to the public light. Not every person that does something wrong is a Disney villain that's completely devoid of any redeeming qualities (although, indeed, that's exactly the depiction we've seen of him -- his life and career are basically ruined). His hobbies are disgusting, he's probably an arrogant prick, but that doesn't necessarily mean he set out to break the law. I loved the Jimmy Kimmel bit -- it was very heartfelt and I agreed with 90% of what he said; however, saying he "doesn't want to start a witchhunt" and then immediately posting pictures of Palmer, smearing his name and reputation, etc is hypocritical, and is where I draw the line. That's the mob mentality I'm talking about.

The hunting of lions in Zimbabwe is legal with a permit. Why the hell would he pay $50k to illegally hunt a lion when there are legal routes he could've followed?! That doesn't make sense to me, which is why I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt (even though it's an unpopular opinion).

This whole thing doesn't exist if douchebag trophy collectors don't.

I agree. And, again, in no way, shape, or form am I trying to condone this practice. I don't support it at all. When following proper regulations, it is legal though. This isn't about morality, it's about legality.

[Freed Roger]

ignorance isn't really a defense. 50K for a pleasure trip in a 3rd world country be it hookers with STDs, bad drugs, endangered species hunting or all the above - he deserves whatever he paid for.

[Bo Hart]

ignorance isn't really a defense. 50K for a pleasure trip in a 3rd world country be it hookers with STDs, bad drugs, endangered species hunting or all the above - he deserves whatever he paid for.

Ignorance doesn't absolve him guilt, and is not an excuse. But if he was mislead, or they betrayed his trust, then it is something I can sympathize with. It could happen to anyone.