Rant/Rave: Bourbon

[jim]

I have never heard of the drink Paloma until this thread. I know the song and what the word means, but have never heard of a drink called that. Is it really that established and recognizable?

[33anda3rd]

Yes. In Mexico, too. Last year I was in Oaxaca with a bunch of other bar owners/managers on an educational trip with Del Maguey and Wirtz Beverage to learn about mezcal production. I don't think a day went by that we didn't have Palomas at the little local cantina at night. It was safe and easy--we were away from resorts and stuff where good bottled water was available. I think when they're not ordered as a "Paloma" locally it's usually because the drinker has a brand preference. "Casadores y Squirt, por favor."

[jim]

Not here.

http://bartenderapp.com/top-50-cocktails

Not here.

http://www.webtender.com/statistics/all-time-top.html

Not here either.

http://www.drinknation.com/drinks/best

And on and on. I can't find it listed anywhere.

I'll bet most people have never heard of it, or know what it is. I know people mix squirt and tequila, I'm just saying that I'll bet the majority of people don't call it a paloma. You call it a paloma because you sell booze to people and need to know this stuff. Haltz too. Thrill is probably trying to be a cool hipster and pickup girls or something with his esoteric knowledge of drinks.

Jose Seis Pack? No, he doesn't know it's called a paloma.

[33anda3rd]

We will just have to agree to disagree, I guess. That first link says the most popular drink is the panty dropper. Number 2 is the Aztec Punch, then Bloody Coochie. I'm not really interested in that list, because drinks based on vaginal puns do not interest me in the least. Those are drinks made in bars where there are girls in Miller Lite half-shirts and short-shorts, and that's one kind of bar and one kind of bartending, however those drinks are not the first or last word on cocktails. Your second link is the same. Jell-O shots are #2. 1-900-FUK-ME-UP is #5. It's not a list worth a second look, and I promise you that 1-900-FUK-ME-UP is not the #5 cocktail in the world.

If you pick up the PDT Cocktail Book, probably the industry standard as far as cocktail recipe books go, the Paloma is in there, along with a couple hundred others--none of which involve colloquialisms for the female anatomy, the Long Island iced tea or any other overly sweet or boozy get-you-drunk abominations of the 1970s-80s.

[stlouie_lipp]

I'd know I'd enjoy having a Mexican margarita with jim while watching a ballgame. Drinking a Paloma with someone while watching a game just doesn't seem like as much fun.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

I'd know I'd enjoy having a Mexican margarita with jim while watching a ballgame. Drinking a Paloma with someone while watching a game just doesn't seem like as much fun.

What about a 1900fukmeup or a bloody cooch?

[stlouie_lipp]

I'd know I'd enjoy having a Mexican margarita with jim while watching a ballgame. Drinking a Paloma with someone while watching a game just doesn't seem like as much fun.

What about a 1900fukmeup or a bloody cooch?

I think that could add to the fun (whatever those are).

[jim]

We will just have to agree to disagree, I guess. That first link says the most popular drink is the panty dropper. Number 2 is the Aztec Punch, then Bloody Coochie. I'm not really interested in that list, because drinks based on vaginal puns do not interest me in the least. Those are drinks made in bars where there are girls in Miller Lite half-shirts and short-shorts, and that's one kind of bar and one kind of bartending, however those drinks are not the first or last word on cocktails. Your second link is the same. Jell-O shots are #2. 1-900-FUK-ME-UP is #5. It's not a list worth a second look, and I promise you that 1-900-FUK-ME-UP is not the #5 cocktail in the world.

If you pick up the PDT Cocktail Book, probably the industry standard as far as cocktail recipe books go, the Paloma is in there, along with a couple hundred others--none of which involve colloquialisms for the female anatomy, the Long Island iced tea or any other overly sweet or boozy get-you-drunk abominations of the 1970s-80s.

We aren't disagreeing. I'm just telling you the people I know that told me this is a Mexican Margarita - the ones with 3rd/4th grade educations who can't even spell their own phonetic language worth a damn - haven't read your industry standard PDT Cocktail book. They don't know that name. It's a white bird to them, not a drink. Again I agree with you that this mixture of Squirt or Lime Jarritos with Tequila and salt is very popular - but the people I know don't call it a Paloma. I really don't know of a single Mexican that drinks what we would call a Margarita. When you go to Mexico and go cruising in the barrio and hanging out at the Cantina de Esquina with your restaurant buddies you are probably associating with a fairly educated bunch in terms of food and drink. Maybe they know that name and call it that name. Go to a place in Tamaulipas where the cartel dudes are hanging out with the hookers and try ordering a Paloma and see if you don't up dead because they think you are a pinche maricon.

[haltz]

I'm sure some Mexicans know that the actual name is Paloma, but I bet ordering it that way is about as esoteric and obnoxious as ordering a "Cuba Libre" or "Cape Cod" in America. And I want to apologize for bringing it up.

[ghostrunner]

The plot thickens:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/03/style ... -evil.html

At the bar, Sueños (''dreams'' in Spanish) has the fever-dream quality of Welles's 1958 film: shot at night with garish light, too dark and too bright at the same time. You go down a few steps, through a service corridor, and arrive -- the kind of space high-stakes dogfights take place in. The hostess wore a black leather gaucho hat last Wednesday. The bartender and waiters were dressed in drab khaki shirts and trousers, like the Mexican police. You get the impression that if you woke up the next morning and went back to look for the bar, it wouldn't be there. I ordered La Paloma. The cocktail is as basic as a bet: liquor and soda, tequila and Mexican Squirt, which is a grapefruit soda. Squirt is a sweeter, tarter version of citrus sodas like Fresca. (Jarritos is another popular brand.) On the evenings when, I suspect, the staff drinks all the Squirt, Sueños substitutes a blend of grapefruit juice, Grand Marnier and 7Up -- a margarita with a couple of extra mariachis.

Working with Steven Olson, a beverage consultant, Sue Torres, the owner and chef of Sueños, based La Paloma on a cocktail she was served in Mexico at the Don Julio ranch, owned by the tequila family, where they grow their agave.

''They said, 'We're going to make you a real margarita, a Mexican margarita,' '' Ms. Torres recalled. It was Squirt, tequila and lime.

La Paloma, which translates as ''the dove,'' and also, similarly, as a meek or a mild person, is an aptly named cocktail. It acts like it's never held a gun before, and then it blows the tin can into the air. Perversely, it tastes better with grapefruit soda than grapefruit juice.

I don't know who's right here, but this is the internet. Someone has to be.