Michael Sam - NFL's first openly gay prospect

[Socnorb11]

I addressed that in my first post in this thread. And Ira Kaufman, the Tampa Tribune reporter, said essentially the same thing on the Dan Patrick show that a talented player is worth the distraction, a marginal player is not. Sam is a marginal player.

Tim Tebow.

Tim Tebow was a first round draft pick, because at least one team thought he was talented enough to be a difference-maker. In fact, the Broncos traded up to draft him, because there were indications that other teams were looking to draft him early.

Actually, Tim Tebow is a good example. Why do you think he was a 1st/2nd round pick, while Michael Sams was 7th round?

Also, Vick was a ridiculously talented player and a proven NFL difference-maker.


That's a lot different than taking a chance on a guy like Michael Sam.

[Socnorb11]

The correct view is that even if it were a distraction it's morally right to deal with it.

Best post in the thread. (assuming you, as a coach/GM, think his talent merits a draft pick)

I agree 100%. You can't say "he deserves a chance" and then not be willing to give him a chance.

[stlouie_lipp]

I addressed that in my first post in this thread. And Ira Kaufman, the Tampa Tribune reporter, said essentially the same thing on the Dan Patrick show that a talented player is worth the distraction, a marginal player is not. Sam is a marginal player.

Tim Tebow.

haha

Tebow was the 25th overall pick in the draft...hardly marginal compared to someone who was projected as a 3rd-4th round pick, then slid down to the 7th round based on poor performances at the combine and his pro day. There is a difference there, you know.

[ghostrunner]

We can guess at motivations. I have my own guesses. But it's still discrimination no matter what. Dungy is using sexual orientation and it's surrounding issues to justify not hiring someone. Same goes for the exec who said he feared a backlash if Sam had to be released.

Just consider that you could continue discriminating on this basis into perpetuity.

[cardsfansince82]

The correct view is that even if it were a distraction it's morally right to deal with it.

Best post in the thread. (assuming you, as a coach/GM, think his talent merits a draft pick)

I agree 100%. You can't say "he deserves a chance" and then not be willing to give him a chance.

That's...pretty much what everyone else except for you has been arguing all along.

[Socnorb11]

The correct view is that even if it were a distraction it's morally right to deal with it.

Best post in the thread. (assuming you, as a coach/GM, think his talent merits a draft pick)

I agree 100%. You can't say "he deserves a chance" and then not be willing to give him a chance.

That's...pretty much what everyone else except for you has been arguing all along.

No it isn't. We've been arguing about gay marriage.

I've been saying since page 1 that his remark was hypocritical.

[cardsfansince82]

I haven't said a single thing about gay marriage. I don't think I even called him a homophobe or mentioned his religion directly at any point. I don't care what his religion is. All I care about is him saying something dumb and clearly hypocritical and participated in calling him out on it. I remember you calling him a hypocrite, but I also remember you spending the next 20 pages after that coming up with every reason possible why he was justified and shouldn't have to defend himself. So I'm not sure what to think.

[Socnorb11]

I haven't said a single thing about gay marriage. I don't think I even called him a homophobe or mentioned his religion directly at any point. I don't care what his religion is. All I care about is him saying something dumb and clearly hypocritical and participated in calling him out on it. I remember you calling him a hypocrite, but I also remember you spending the next 20 pages after that coming up with every reason possible why he was justified and shouldn't have to defend himself. So I'm not sure what to think.

If this has been YOUR stance all along, then it explains why you and I haven't had much interaction in this thread. Apparently we're not that far apart.

Most folks in this discussion have been discussing his faith and gay marriage. I've spent 20 pages explaining why I don't think his faith plays a part in this.

I think Dungy was trying (unsuccessfully) to be nice by saying that Sams deserves a chance. Truthfully, I don't think that Dungy believes that he's a good enough player to overcome the downside ("distractions"), which is why he wouldn't draft him.

That's just my take.

[Arthur Dent]

Specifically, if you draft him, and then have to cut him for some reason, there could be a firestorm.

I wonder how likely that is. My guess is that it would not be a major source of controversy since a consensus seems to have already been established that he is on the bubble in NFL talent. Assuming that there is no announcement that he was cut for locker room reasons or something like that, I don't know why it would be a particularly big deal. But I don't really follow sports media controversies, so maybe I am out of touch.

[Jocephus]

ray rice beats his wife, on camera, gets a 2 game suspension. but luckily, according to coach, its not a big deal

Speaking about Rice's punishment after the team's first full-quad workout of training camp Thursday in Owings Mills, Maryland, Ravens coach John Harbaugh said: "It's not a big deal. It's just part of the process. We said from the beginning that the circumstances would determine the consequences. There are consequences when you make a mistake like that. I stand behind Ray. He's a heck of a guy. He's done everything right since. He makes a mistake. He's going to have to pay a consequence."

however, the possibility of a gay player making the team (or being cut) is too much of a distraction.

i realize RR, on the field, has proven a lot and sam hasn't (at least in the NFL) but don't give me this distraction malarkey.

And John Harbaugh is being roundly criticized for saying this. But I don't see what one has to do with the other? Harbaugh didn't say anything about Sam or a distraction.

the point im trying to make, and i feel like ive said this many, many times in fairly simple terms in this discussion, is that teams (from all leagues) are willing to try-out, play, sign, hire, etc guys with all sorts of "distractions" attached to their name. i've named several in this thread. what is it about sam's distractions that are so much more to deal with for a coach/team than a player returning to football, after 2 years incarcerated in a federal prison for dog-fighting? or a man who beat his wife on camera in a hotel lobby? or a player signing a lucrative contract after being suspended for steroid use? how come that's easier to deal with? why is harbaugh willing to say that quote and defend his wife beating player, to say its not a big deal? is he loyal to players to a fault? why can't dungy make that same sacrifice? even if sam didn't make the cut, he's not willing to let the guy try out? tony does realize you can be mum to the press. you dont *have* to tell them anything. you can say "he's not a distraction. next question". jeff fisher has no problem doing that. tony's often lauded for being a leader yet he is unwilling to lead sam because of a "distraction"? why did he help lead the vick push? why was he able to analyze that situation, with the help of his lord and savior, and feel vick was worthy of putting his name and values on the line whereas he cannot do the same for sam? what is the main difference?

this isn't about the media (though they no doubt make things louder), this isn't about him even making the team as it's very possible he might not and most supporters of sam realize that. its about an opportunity. dungy doesn't have to be that guy. but tony dungy, the leader of men and a great football coach, refused to even try. yet he says "I was not asked whether I would have a problem having Michael Sam on my team. I would not. ...""... I do not believe Michael's sexual orientation will be a distraction to his teammates or his organization.". he also calls him a good football player, so he must think theres *some* talent there. but the reason he wouldn't draft him is 'cause of the distraction it would bring.