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Vidor wrote:I think there's something connecting the absolutist, fundamentalist Christianity of the Duggars with molestation within their family.

What would that be?

Tim wrote:

Vidor wrote:I think there's something connecting the absolutist, fundamentalist Christianity of the Duggars with molestation within their family.

What would that be?

To me, it's not the act of molestation, but the distrust of secular professionals such as counselors or psychologists. This was kept in-house to such an extent that it seems like cultural paranoia.

sighyoung wrote:

Tim wrote:

Vidor wrote:I think there's something connecting the absolutist, fundamentalist Christianity of the Duggars with molestation within their family.

What would that be?

To me, it's not the act of molestation, but the distrust of secular professionals such as counselors or psychologists. This was kept in-house to such an extent that it seems like cultural paranoia.

I wasn't aware that fundamentalist Christians distrusted mental health professionals. I thought that applied to Scientologists only.

sighyoung wrote:

Tim wrote:

Vidor wrote:I think there's something connecting the absolutist, fundamentalist Christianity of the Duggars with molestation within their family.

What would that be?

To me, it's not the act of molestation, but the distrust of secular professionals such as counselors or psychologists. This was kept in-house to such an extent that it seems like cultural paranoia.

It also bears noting that the Duggars were on the verge of becoming very wealthy from reality tv right when the police investigation was happening. They had tremendous financial incentives to keep everything under wrap and handle it all in-house.

Btw the "argument" that Lena Dunham did the same thing but got away with it because liberal media blah blah is stupid and wrong. Dunham was 7 and looked at her younger sister's vagina after the sister had stuffed pebbles in it. That is not remotely similar to a 14 year old boy nonconsensually fondling the breasts and genitals of younger sisters and some other minor girl. To say it's the same is just bad attempts at attempted political point scoring.

I probably don't know enough about the Duggars, their politics or religious beliefs to even post in this thread. (Other than most Arkansans I've known don't care for them)

So with that, I AM OUT.

heyzeus wrote:
It also bears noting that the Duggars were on the verge of becoming very wealthy from reality tv right when the police investigation was happening. They had tremendous financial incentives to keep everything under wrap and handle it all in-house.

I could by that.

That being said, I think it would be difficult for any family to know exactly how to handle the situation when their 14 year old tells them something like this. As a parent, I'm thankful that I've never had to deal with it, because I'm honestly not sure exactly what I would do initially.

heyzeus wrote: Btw the "argument" that Lena Dunham did the same thing but got away with it because liberal media blah blah is stupid and wrong. Dunham was 7 and looked at her younger sister's vagina after the sister had stuffed pebbles in it. That is not remotely similar to a 14 year old boy nonconsensually fondling the breasts and genitals of younger sisters and some other minor girl. To say it's the same is just bad attempts at attempted political point scoring.

You're right. It's not the same. It's worse, because she is choosing to more or less glorify it, as an adult. If you read the context of her story, it's pretty hard to fathom that it stopped at age 7. She says: she attempted to persuade to kiss her using “anything a sexual predator might do.”. She also talks about masturbating with her sister in bed next to her. That's not something that a 7 year old does with a 1 year old, I don't think.

Tim wrote:I probably don't know enough about the Duggars, their politics or religious beliefs to even post in this thread. (Other than most Arkansans I've known don't care for them)

So with that, I AM OUT.

Honestly, I don't know much about them either. Never seen the show.

I just think the notion that this case is unique because they're Christians is silly.

Socnorb11 wrote:I'm not sure what you want the end game to be. If you really want harsher penalties for 14 year olds who are guilty of molesting younger girls, then you should have started your little crusade a long time ago. Like I said, you weren't exactly jumping on board to express how appalled you were about Lena Dunham. Juvenile defenders aren't automatically placed on the offender list. In fact, it's not really that common. In fact, I'd say the majority of the time you'll never even know about it, because they'll never tell anyone that they did it.

There is no end game or crusade. This is a thread on a message board I frequent entitled "Asshat"s. I happen to think Josh Duggar is a supreme asshat so I made a post or two and some other people are interested in discussing his asshattiness as well. I don't care about Lena Dunham or trying to ascertain "who got it worse?", and neither did you until it came out on this week's conservative talking points newsletter that's blasted to every AOL email address or whatever. I also don't care about sex offender laws enough to post about them on a regular basis either, I am simply trying to suss out what another kid in that same town that didn't have prominent, well connected parents would have faced. I'm simply commenting on a story in the news. Maybe you can let me know what your end game is so we can have a more productive conversation.

Socnorb11 wrote:As far as forgiving and forgetting, I never suggested that. It's not my place, since I'm not the one he molested. I'm trying to have a discussion about how juvenile child molesters are handled, and you want to turn it into an anti-Christian rant. In every single post you've made here, you've brought up his Christianity, as if there is some link between Christianity and child molestation. You're not so much appalled by child molestation, you're appalled by Christianity, otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to make the connection, and you would have spoken about about other child molesters.

I don't know a single person that doesn't at least publicly claim to be appalled by child molesters. Let me know if you do so I can avoid them at all costs.

I've been pretty clear about my views on christians over the years, but you constantly seem to misconstrue them. I have nothing against the idea of christianity or any other religion, I simply have a problem when people impose their beliefs on others or claim some sort of moral superiority. I consider myself a pretty good person without religion, so it's pretty offensive to be told my lack of faith makes me inherently inferior. I am not appalled by christianity, I'm appalled by hypocrisy. Christians are not any better than anyone else and we have daily reminders such as this story that make it painfully obvious.

The reason I bring up his christianity is because that is literally his entire identity. All of his fame, financial status, employment, everything is based on him and his family asserting themselves as leaders within the church. He's taken that status and used it to spread messages of hate such as equating gay people and pedophilia. When it turns out he himself is a pedophile I think that is pretty well deserving of public ridicule. This is me participating in that in my own small way.

Socnorb11 wrote: I just think the notion that this case is unique because they're Christians is silly.

You can find child molesters in any population, so it's not unique in that sense. What is unique is that they belong to a very specific subset of the religion that is essentially a cult. Only in what amounts to a closed society could an entire community be aware of this and all collectively shirk their responsibility to report it to the proper authorities. It's not an attack on the religion as a whole so much as amazement that this scenario could still occur in modern america.

Tim wrote:

Vidor wrote:I think there's something connecting the absolutist, fundamentalist Christianity of the Duggars with molestation within their family.

What would that be?

An isolated, cloistered household with everyone confined to the gender roles of a fundamentalist patriarchy is probably not a healthy place for anyone to grow up.

Vidor wrote:

Tim wrote:

Vidor wrote:I think there's something connecting the absolutist, fundamentalist Christianity of the Duggars with molestation within their family.

What would that be?

An isolated, cloistered household with everyone confined to the gender roles of a fundamentalist patriarchy is probably not a healthy place for anyone to grow up.

Agreed.

What's that got to do with Christianity?