2016-17 NBA Season

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thrill
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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

Post by thrill »

A lot of good points. This is an interesting hypothetical conversation.

Another consideration is that basketball is much easier to "rig" than soccer because the court is smaller, single players can dominate possession through ball hogging, screens and iso offenses. That's just not possible in soccer where you have to basically manipulate the space of a 120 x 90 yard playing surface through coordinated movement and timing, so the amount of pieces you have to buy to have an elite NBA team is much smaller. You can get three guys and dominate, as opposed to 7 or 8 elite players and 6 solid contributors.
themiddle54 wrote:In the EPL, Chelsea and Man City used to be doormats. They got billionaire owners who started buying every piece of talent in sight. Now they're perennial contenders who have won lots of hardware the past decade or so. The lack of a salary cap there has brought more competition to the EPL, and it's not just ManCity and Arsenal and Liverpool anymore. While the glamour of La Liga's two biggest clubs tilts that league, the billions that went into the EPL in a cap-free system has made that league more competitive.
While it's true that some sheik or oligarch could buy Charlotte from MJ and turn them into a juggernaut by sheer monetary investment, it would still be much, much harder in the NBA because you can't just purchase contracts. You have to draft, wait for FA's to hit the market or make a trade. You can't just buy Sergio Aguero from Atletico Madrid, David Silva from Villareal, etc and roll to a title. That's only viable because the sport has a half dozen relevant leagues and hundreds of other feeder leagues funneling thousands of pro players to 12 or so huge clubs. If the NBA was just constantly pillaging other NBA teams' rosters there would be chaos. That actually sounds fun.

Another factor is that the NBA is still very market-oriented. Geography and culture play into it much more.

If I'm a hot up and coming teenager at a big club like Christian Pulisic, and I want to grow a gigantic personal brand, I can play for basically a dozen team in 5 countries to do that, whereas in the NBA, there's still a perception that individual market matters. Players want to be in LA, NY, Miami and now SF.


Basically, my overall point to Tim was that I don't think abolishing the salary cap does anything for a team like Charlotte. Even if they did, the chances that a team in Charlotte would have the owner that wanted to outspend their revenue like crazy to field an elite team in the hope that merch and out-of-market fan share would increase along with on-court success is very low. Owners like that would be attracted to bigger, more glamorous markets. To use your examples, Chelsea is in London. City is in Manchester. PSG is in Paris. They're not in the equivalent of Charlotte or Memphis. They're in the sexy spots where people want to live for cultural reasons. If we opened the market, I firmly believe the playing field would be even more heavily tilted to the big markets because that's where the owners with money would want to be. At least now small market teams have the chance to hit the lottery on players like Anthony Davis. NOLA is great, but it ain't exactly a big market.

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themiddle54
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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

Post by themiddle54 »

To continue the thought experiment.

What's the impact of OKC not being able to keep Harden because of cap/luxury tax issues and other cap-based moves? What if Harden stays? OKC has 3 of the 9 best players in basketball last year by PER. Is there a + or - impact on overall competitiveness in the league? Him leaving means HOU gets a bit better, but HOU isn't winning a title, and without Harden OKC didn't either.

What's the impact league-wide on competitiveness when teams so frequently make lopsided trades for cap space, especially in a free agency market that doesn't offer talent, or that offers talent that won't come to that team because, money being equal, they'd rather be in NY or Chicago, leaving those teams that trade away good players for cap space holding cap space they can't spend?

What's the impact because of the cap on late-career guys who can still be useful? Those guys who take $3-5MM to take a rotation spot off the bench. Because of the cap they can't get paid more than a few million a year, so the decision comes down to geography and/or which team looks already primed to make a title run. In a capless league, what's the impact on those players. Like, if Paul Pierce can only get like $5 million as a bench player but some team who was the #3 seed last year ponies up a lot more money for the luxury of Paul Pierce as a bench player who can spot up threes and nail free throws off the bench, complementing some other pieces, is it better for competition if those teams are able to pay more to attract a Pierce, or is it best that he's limited in what he can be paid and therefore artificially the teams who have a realistic chance of signing him becomes limited?

Charlotte is in the middle of probably the best college basketball state in the country. There's a culture of basketball there. They've just never put a good product on the court. There's also a good bit of money in that city. I think they have to do more than throw money at the situation--the Nets are a good example of that. But if they can get their stuff together and form a base, and snag a franchise player in the draft, throwing money at putting pieces around that base could work.

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Tim
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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

Post by Tim »

themiddle54 wrote: Charlotte is in the middle of probably the best college basketball state in the country. There's a culture of basketball there. They've just never put a good product on the court. There's also a good bit of money in that city. I think they have to do more than throw money at the situation--the Nets are a good example of that. But if they can get their stuff together and form a base, and snag a franchise player in the draft, throwing money at putting pieces around that base could work.
Hornets were set to draft Anthony Davis. Should have had the #1 pick. Instead got pick 2 and drafted MKG, who played 7 games last year.

*** And this conspiracy *** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_NBA_draft

The lottery was held on May 30, 2012 in the Disney/ABC Times Square Studio in New York City.[54] The New Orleans Hornets won the rights to the first overall selection with a 13.7% chance to win. The Hornets were a league-owned team at the time, leading to continued conspiracy theories about the lottery process.[55][56][57][58] The Charlotte Bobcats, who had the worst record and the biggest chance to win the lottery, won the second overall pick.

In my limited Charlotte fandom (as far as years are concerned), it appears that ownership has been the issue. MJ now has a very competent GM and a top 5-7 coach in Steve Clifford. Hornets stock is rising IMO.

It would be nice for Steph to come home. Daddy Dale is the color commentator and Steph is from Charlotte.

#pipedream

Socnorb11
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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

Post by Socnorb11 »

"Only" 45 points and 17 rebounds for Anthony Davis tonight. His average actually dropped. He's something.

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Tim
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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

Post by Tim »

Hornets are 2-0, matching the best record to start a season in franchise history.

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MrCrowesGarden
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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

Post by MrCrowesGarden »

35-15-3-3-2 for AD as the Pelicans fall to 0-4. At least Buddy Hield had his first semi-decent game.

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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

Post by Farewell Friends »

You know it's bad when Tony Snell is putting up a 13-10.

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themiddle54
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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

Post by themiddle54 »

I liked the KD statement game.

Confession: I hate Westbrook. Love his athleticism, it's beautiful to watch. Love checking Twitter for his hilarious outfits. But he's infuriating. I hated watching OKC games and seeing him shoot 20-footers while KD stood wide open. I think he's a loser and any team with him as the alpha is destined to be a 3-4 seed at best.

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Tim
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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

Post by Tim »

themiddle54 wrote:I liked the KD statement game.

Confession: I hate Westbrook. Love his athleticism, it's beautiful to watch. Love checking Twitter for his hilarious outfits. But he's infuriating. I hated watching OKC games and seeing him shoot 20-footers while KD stood wide open. I think he's a loser and any team with him as the alpha is destined to be a 3-4 seed at best.
I love Westbrook. He wants to cut your heart out and eat it rare. The proof will be in the pudding this year. If he can will this OKC team to a 3 seed, he has to be in the discussion for MVP.

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Tim
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Re: 2016-17 NBA Season

Post by Tim »

MrCrowesGarden wrote:35-15-3-3-2 for AD as the Pelicans fall to 0-4. At least Buddy Hield had his first semi-decent game.
Tough loss again. Curry went bonkers

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