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Magneto2.0 wrote:I'm still confused by this theory going around that Maddon did something wrong. It's the equivalent of saying a free agent SS shouldn't talk to a team because someone on that team is currently filling the position. If the Cubs feel Maddon is a better man for the job than Renteria, Maddon shouldn't take himself out of the running because Renteria already has the job. I really am confused by that philosophy.

There was a sales guy I worked with from one company. When that company started to go down the tubes, he left and went to one of their main competitors. I still work with him sometimes. I trust that guy as far as I can throw him.

ghostrunner wrote:

Magneto2.0 wrote:I'm still confused by this theory going around that Maddon did something wrong. It's the equivalent of saying a free agent SS shouldn't talk to a team because someone on that team is currently filling the position. If the Cubs feel Maddon is a better man for the job than Renteria, Maddon shouldn't take himself out of the running because Renteria already has the job. I really am confused by that philosophy.

I'm fine with it. I don't care for the Cubs praising Renteria up and down while basically saying they had to hire Maddon. I feel like that's way overestimating a manager generally, and if you want to make a business decision then all the justification seems excessive. But then I was just browsing reddit and the overwhelming consensus there is the Cubs handled it just right. I just think if you're firing me, I don't want to hear that I deserved to keep the job next year.

That part I can agree with. No reason to blow smoke about him if you knew your plan the entire time was to replace him with a better option

pioneer98 wrote:

Magneto2.0 wrote:I'm still confused by this theory going around that Maddon did something wrong. It's the equivalent of saying a free agent SS shouldn't talk to a team because someone on that team is currently filling the position. If the Cubs feel Maddon is a better man for the job than Renteria, Maddon shouldn't take himself out of the running because Renteria already has the job. I really am confused by that philosophy.

There was a sales guy I worked with from one company. When that company started to go down the tubes, he left and went to one of their main competitors. I still work with him sometimes. I trust that guy as far as I can throw him.

Ehh to me, that's just survival. I don't know the whole story of that situation, but if he left a company that was on the decline and found employment at another firm that was steady, then that's smart. I don't see why you'd have an issue with that.

Magneto2.0 wrote:

pioneer98 wrote:

Magneto2.0 wrote:I'm still confused by this theory going around that Maddon did something wrong. It's the equivalent of saying a free agent SS shouldn't talk to a team because someone on that team is currently filling the position. If the Cubs feel Maddon is a better man for the job than Renteria, Maddon shouldn't take himself out of the running because Renteria already has the job. I really am confused by that philosophy.

There was a sales guy I worked with from one company. When that company started to go down the tubes, he left and went to one of their main competitors. I still work with him sometimes. I trust that guy as far as I can throw him.

Ehh to me, that's just survival. I don't know the whole story of that situation, but if he left a company that was on the decline and found employment at another firm that was steady, then that's smart. I don't see why you'd have an issue with that.

Absolutely. Are you supposed to be playing with the band as the ship is sinking? In this day and age, especially where the employer lays off people left and right depending upon how their stock is trending. Sure there is more job mobility (both ways) and rightfully so, as companies don't take care of employees the way they used to through job longevity, benefits, pensions, etc. I see nothing wrong in what Maddon did. He probably was close to Friedman, respected his moves as a GM, and given the uncertainty and his earned respect/proven ability as a manager, decided it was time to move on. Whether the Cubs "tampered" prior to him making that decision is an entirely different matter and probably impossible to prove.

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/joe- ... -it-103114

Do the Rays press this? What's there to loose?

planet planet wrote:

Magneto2.0 wrote:

pioneer98 wrote:

Magneto2.0 wrote:I'm still confused by this theory going around that Maddon did something wrong. It's the equivalent of saying a free agent SS shouldn't talk to a team because someone on that team is currently filling the position. If the Cubs feel Maddon is a better man for the job than Renteria, Maddon shouldn't take himself out of the running because Renteria already has the job. I really am confused by that philosophy.

There was a sales guy I worked with from one company. When that company started to go down the tubes, he left and went to one of their main competitors. I still work with him sometimes. I trust that guy as far as I can throw him.

Ehh to me, that's just survival. I don't know the whole story of that situation, but if he left a company that was on the decline and found employment at another firm that was steady, then that's smart. I don't see why you'd have an issue with that.

Absolutely. Are you supposed to be playing with the band as the ship is sinking? In this day and age, especially where the employer lays off people left and right depending upon how their stock is trending. Sure there is more job mobility (both ways) and rightfully so, as companies don't take care of employees the way they used to through job longevity, benefits, pensions, etc. I see nothing wrong in what Maddon did. He probably was close to Friedman, respected his moves as a GM, and given the uncertainty and his earned respect/proven ability as a manager, decided it was time to move on. Whether the Cubs "tampered" prior to him making that decision is an entirely different matter and probably impossible to prove.

The old company is still around, competing against his new company. It created some weird situations. He knew all these projects we had been working on with his old company and used that knowledge...Maybe it is not the best comparison. Whatever. If you see someone screw someone else, guess what? There is a good chance they will try to screw you someday, too. And the guy who really got screwed in this is Renteria, so maybe Maddon is the one who should be more concerned.

MinorLeagueGuy wrote:http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/joe- ... -it-103114

Do the Rays press this? What's there to loose?

In the off chance the Cubs might have to give something up, there is no way on god's green earth the Rays are going to get a top 10 prospect in all of baseball for a manager who opted out. It would be like the Cardinals giving up Piscotty as compensation for Bruce Bochy. More than likely, nothing will happen.

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/joe- ... -it-103114

Do the Rays press this? What's there to loose?

Magneto2.0 wrote:

ghostrunner wrote:

Magneto2.0 wrote:I'm still confused by this theory going around that Maddon did something wrong. It's the equivalent of saying a free agent SS shouldn't talk to a team because someone on that team is currently filling the position. If the Cubs feel Maddon is a better man for the job than Renteria, Maddon shouldn't take himself out of the running because Renteria already has the job. I really am confused by that philosophy.

I'm fine with it. I don't care for the Cubs praising Renteria up and down while basically saying they had to hire Maddon. I feel like that's way overestimating a manager generally, and if you want to make a business decision then all the justification seems excessive. But then I was just browsing reddit and the overwhelming consensus there is the Cubs handled it just right. I just think if you're firing me, I don't want to hear that I deserved to keep the job next year.

That part I can agree with. No reason to blow smoke about him if you knew your plan the entire time was to replace him with a better option

It wasn't, though. The Cubs had every intention of bringing back Renteria (and as Theo said, they even said as much). They couldn't have foreseen the all-but-universal pick for best manager in baseball coming available, because no one knew Andrew Friedman was going to leave Tampa, and no one knew Maddon was then going to leave ([expletive], Maddon had to be told he had the opt-out available to him in the first place).

ndistops wrote:

Magneto2.0 wrote:

ghostrunner wrote:

Magneto2.0 wrote:I'm still confused by this theory going around that Maddon did something wrong. It's the equivalent of saying a free agent SS shouldn't talk to a team because someone on that team is currently filling the position. If the Cubs feel Maddon is a better man for the job than Renteria, Maddon shouldn't take himself out of the running because Renteria already has the job. I really am confused by that philosophy.

I'm fine with it. I don't care for the Cubs praising Renteria up and down while basically saying they had to hire Maddon. I feel like that's way overestimating a manager generally, and if you want to make a business decision then all the justification seems excessive. But then I was just browsing reddit and the overwhelming consensus there is the Cubs handled it just right. I just think if you're firing me, I don't want to hear that I deserved to keep the job next year.

That part I can agree with. No reason to blow smoke about him if you knew your plan the entire time was to replace him with a better option

It wasn't, though. The Cubs had every intention of bringing back Renteria (and as Theo said, they even said as much). They couldn't have foreseen the all-but-universal pick for best manager in baseball coming available, because no one knew Andrew Friedman was going to leave Tampa, and no one knew Maddon was then going to leave ([expletive], Maddon had to be told he had the opt-out available to him in the first place).

I think the implication being made elsewhere is that once Maddon became available and knew his option, there was communication between him and the Cubs assuring him he had a position if he left Tampa. That's believable, but so is the version Epstein is putting forth. He says he contacted MLB to confirm it was ok to pursue Maddon. MLB will corroborate that no doubt. It's not like Maddon really had to worry about finding a job anyway.