Michael Sam - NFL's first openly gay prospect

[stlouie_lipp]

People do like to pile on Christians, particularly Evangelicals, these days. I think if it was Bill Parcels who said he wouldn't have drafted Sam because of the distractions the story would have died right away. It would have made a round in the media, but nowhere near to this extent.

When it comes to this issue, they're (in general) a giant group of people that support inequality, so I'm not sure that piling on or public outcry is a bad thing. That's basically how social change happens.

That's kind of my point. Everyone inferred bigotry in what he said because of his beliefs, that's what blew up the story. Is that fair? Maybe, but if it was someone who doesn't wear his Christianity on his sleeve it would have been a non-story.

[Socnorb11]

Yes. I don't need someone to explicitly say "my comments are ethically motivated" to be able to connect the dots from him essentially saying his faith dictates his behavior and his behavior. You don't either. You're just being belligerent. Why? I don't know. Maybe because you agree with him and don't feel you deserve criticism for it. You do.

You're being obtuse here. You know full well what his comments at 4:58 meant.

Through the entire interview, he repeatedly stated that his football decisions and his religious point of view don't overlap. You want to ignore all of that, and blatantly misrepresent one snippet at 4:58 of the video as evidence that his comments are motivated by his faith.

"Will your faith bleed into this controversy" is a pretty straight up question............... and is a pretty far cry from "Were your comments motivated by your faith".

[Socnorb11]

People do like to pile on Christians, particularly Evangelicals, these days. I think if it was Bill Parcels who said he wouldn't have drafted Sam because of the distractions the story would have died right away. It would have made a round in the media, but nowhere near to this extent.

When it comes to this issue, they're (in general) a giant group of people that support inequality, so I'm not sure that piling on or public outcry is a bad thing. That's basically how social change happens.

This is pretty blatant stereotyping, though. Is this any different than assuming that when we see a Muslim on the street, they must have evil intentions......... so we should call the police?

[Jocephus]

Abstract

In two studies, 5- and 6-year-old children were questioned about the status of the protagonist embedded in three different types of stories. In realistic stories that only included ordinary events, all children, irrespective of family background and schooling, claimed that the protagonist was a real person. In religious stories that included ordinarily impossible events brought about by divine intervention, claims about the status of the protagonist varied sharply with exposure to religion. Children who went to church or were enrolled in a parochial school, or both, judged the protagonist in religious stories to be a real person, whereas secular children with no such exposure to religion judged the protagonist in religious stories to be fictional. Children's upbringing was also related to their judgment about the protagonist in fantastical stories that included ordinarily impossible events whether brought about by magic (Study 1) or without reference to magic (Study 2). Secular children were more likely than religious children to judge the protagonist in such fantastical stories to be fictional. The results suggest that exposure to religious ideas has a powerful impact on children's differentiation between reality and fiction, not just for religious stories but also for fantastical stories.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 12138/full

[thrill]

Yes. I don't need someone to explicitly say "my comments are ethically motivated" to be able to connect the dots from him essentially saying his faith dictates his behavior and his behavior. You don't either. You're just being belligerent. Why? I don't know. Maybe because you agree with him and don't feel you deserve criticism for it. You do.

You're being obtuse here. You know full well what his comments at 4:58 meant.

Through the entire interview, he repeatedly stated that his football decisions and his religious point of view don't overlap. You want to ignore all of that, and blatantly misrepresent one snippet at 4:58 of the video as evidence that his comments are motivated by his faith.

"Will your faith bleed into this controversy" is a pretty straight up question............... and is a pretty far cry from "Were your comments motivated by your faith".

You're so miopic about this. How can you reconcile the obvious correlation between his religious beliefs and how he lives his life and ignore it's role in this specific behavior?

Is this any different than assuming that when we see a Muslim on the street, they must have evil intentions......... so we should call the police?

Holy crap.
Yes. It is very different. The muslim on the street hasn't said or done anything to make you believe he may be a violent extremist. Tony Dungy has said and done plenty of things to indicate his homophobia and his religious convictions. For this to be analogous, your fictional muslim would have to be actively telling people he's a muslim and saying something like, "Ya know I'm not a terrorist, but that Osama Bin Laden guy had some good ideas!"

You're silly if you think employers only look for employees that support all of their agendas.

I don't know what you're referring to. I haven't said anything remotely close to that. You're arguing against things I haven't said.

The conversation I thought I'd been having is to whether or not it's logical to assume Tony Dungy's opinions on Michael Sam are related to his religious beliefs and not this nebulous straw man "distraction" nonsense he claims.

[Socnorb11]

Yes. I don't need someone to explicitly say "my comments are ethically motivated" to be able to connect the dots from him essentially saying his faith dictates his behavior and his behavior. You don't either. You're just being belligerent. Why? I don't know. Maybe because you agree with him and don't feel you deserve criticism for it. You do.

You're being obtuse here. You know full well what his comments at 4:58 meant.

Through the entire interview, he repeatedly stated that his football decisions and his religious point of view don't overlap. You want to ignore all of that, and blatantly misrepresent one snippet at 4:58 of the video as evidence that his comments are motivated by his faith.

"Will your faith bleed into this controversy" is a pretty straight up question............... and is a pretty far cry from "Were your comments motivated by your faith".

You're so miopic about this. How can you reconcile the obvious correlation between his religious beliefs and how he lives his life and ignore it's role in this specific behavior?

How can I reconcile it? I live it every day. I am a Christian. I give that zero consideration.......... none, nada, zilch, nil none........... when looking at prospective employees.

I'd be a nervous wreck (and Tony Dungy would, too) if I tried to surround every aspect of my life with people who have the exact same beliefs that I have. Do you really think that's what Christians do? If so, you're pretty far out of touch with common Christian day-to-day life. I relate to people all day every day without considering for one fraction of a second what their religious beliefs are.

[haltz]

People do like to pile on Christians, particularly Evangelicals, these days. I think if it was Bill Parcels who said he wouldn't have drafted Sam because of the distractions the story would have died right away. It would have made a round in the media, but nowhere near to this extent.

When it comes to this issue, they're (in general) a giant group of people that support inequality, so I'm not sure that piling on or public outcry is a bad thing. That's basically how social change happens.

This is pretty blatant stereotyping, though. Is this any different than assuming that when we see a Muslim on the street, they must have evil intentions......... so we should call the police?

Yeah, it's a lot different. Your analogies are just awful. What was the other one? Oh yeah, we should be outraged because Jerry Jones thinks Manziel's a jackass.

[Socnorb11]

Your analogies are just awful. What was the other one? Oh yeah, we should be outraged because Jerry Jones thinks Manziel's a jackass.

You would only be outraged about that if Jerry Jones was a professed Christian and Manziel was gay........ correct?

[haltz]

Incorrect.

[thrill]

How can I reconcile it? I live it every day. I am a Christian. I give that zero consideration.......... none, nada, zilch, nil none........... when looking at prospective employees.

What on earth are you talking about? Hiring? What does this have to do with how Dungy lives his faith? You're making my point. You live your christianity every day, therefore when you do something, it reflects on you as a christian. Everything you do, you do as a representative of christ. How do I know this? Because quite contrary to this:

you're pretty far out of touch with common Christian day-to-day life.

I was devout evangelical Christian for 21 years. The biggest single thing in my life was my faith, my involvement in my youth group and my church as a whole. The biggest defining characteristic of everyone in my immediate family and almost everyone in my extended family is their christian faith. I understand common Christianity as much as anyone does.

I'd be a nervous wreck (and Tony Dungy would, too) if I tried to surround every aspect of my life with people who have the exact same beliefs that I have. Do you really think that's what Christians do?

What on earth does this have to do with my belief that Tony Dungy's faith is related to his beliefs on gay marriage and why he wouldn't draft Michael Sam? That is all I've been saying this entire time and all you have done is not come up with an explanation for why you think his faith has nothing to do with his opinion.