Coronavirus

[cardinalkarp]

(ie just as many vaccinated in the hospital as unvaccinated)

This is a fiction you continue to repeat.

Somehow it’s fiction in our country, but you look elsewhere not so much….that’s not odd to you?

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/ ... finds.html

[G. Keenan]

(ie just as many vaccinated in the hospital as unvaccinated)

This is a fiction you continue to repeat.

Somehow it’s fiction in our country, but you look elsewhere not so much….that’s not odd to you?

Do you want to share this data you are referring to?

Edit: Thanks for sharing. So a sample size of 514 patients that says nothing about the underlying health conditions of the vaccinated individuals hospitalized except that they are over age 60. And again, to return to how percentages work, in a population with a higher percentage of vaxxed people the percentage of vaxxed people who do get hospitalized is going to be higher. The Science article on linked within the article you linked says this:

People vaccinated in January had a 2.26 times greater risk for a breakthrough infection than those vaccinated in April. (Potential confounders include the fact that the very oldest Israelis, with the weakest immune systems, were vaccinated first.)

So vaccine effectiveness is waning over time in the population for whom vaccines were always going to be the least effective to begin with.

[haltz]

It's worth repeating that as the percentage of vaccinations go up, the percentage of breakthrough infections/deaths/hospitalizations will go up. Imagine a population that's 100% vaccinated - all cases will be among vaccinated individuals.

[cardinalkarp]

It's worth repeating that as the percentage of vaccinations go up, the percentage of breakthrough infections/deaths/hospitalizations will go up. Imagine a population that's 100% vaccinated - all cases will be among vaccinated individuals.

I continue hearing this argument, but as it stands now where you have percentages of both the effectiveness of the vaccine should be outweighing the difference i would think.

[cardinalkarp]

(ie just as many vaccinated in the hospital as unvaccinated)

This is a fiction you continue to repeat.

Somehow it’s fiction in our country, but you look elsewhere not so much….that’s not odd to you?

Do you want to share this data you are referring to?

Edit: Thanks for sharing. So a sample size of 514 patients that says nothing about the underlying health conditions of the vaccinated individuals hospitalized except that they are over age 60. And again, to return to how percentages work, in a population with a higher percentage of vaxxed people the percentage of vaxxed people who do get hospitalized is going to be higher. The Science article on linked within the article you linked says this:

People vaccinated in January had a 2.26 times greater risk for a breakthrough infection than those vaccinated in April. (Potential confounders include the fact that the very oldest Israelis, with the weakest immune systems, were vaccinated first.)

So vaccine effectiveness is waning over time in the population for whom vaccines were always going to be the least effective to begin with.

It doesn’t but I would venture to say we’re going to see much of the same trend in the US.

[G. Keenan]

It's worth repeating that as the percentage of vaccinations go up, the percentage of breakthrough infections/deaths/hospitalizations will go up. Imagine a population that's 100% vaccinated - all cases will be among vaccinated individuals.

I continue hearing this argument, but as it stands now where you have percentages of both the effectiveness of the vaccine should be outweighing the difference i would think.

And it is, everywhere except in this Israeli sample of 514 people currently hospitalized. I have not seen this kind of 50/50 split on hospitalizations anywhere else. Maybe it will emerge with time as vaccine-induced immunity wanes in the most vulnerable populations. Hence the possible need for boosters in the groups.

[Socnorb11]

Yeah, in a country that's 78% vaccinated, showing that 59% of those in the hospital are vaccinated really does nothing at all to support the argument.

[Popeye_Card]

It is also important to discern if those hospitalized that tested positive for COVID were hospitalized *for* COVID. Many of the breakthrough hospitalizations aren't for COVID.

[G. Keenan]

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandso ... ndividuals

TLDR: Some people are showing startling levels of ability to fight of most/all types of coronavirus. Those most capable seem to have been infected naturally in 2020 and then received one of the MRNA vaccines.

So who is capable of mounting this "superhuman" or "hybrid" immune response?

People who have had a "hybrid" exposure to the virus. Specifically, they were infected with the coronavirus in 2020 and then immunized with mRNA vaccines this year. "Those people have amazing responses to the vaccine," says virologist Theodora Hatziioannou at Rockefeller University, who also helped lead several of the studies. "I think they are in the best position to fight the virus. The antibodies in these people's blood can even neutralize SARS-CoV-1, the first coronavirus, which emerged 20 years ago. That virus is very, very different from SARS-CoV-2."

Hear that @Leroy ? You have top notch immunity.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

May need to switch the language to english which is easy to do if you're using chrome, not sure about other browsers but here's israel's data.

Lot's of talk about how more vaxxed people are sick/severe there than unvaxxed which is true, but you can toggle between absolute numbers and rate numbers and see the vax is still quite effective. (Translation is not perfect, fair warning, I'm assuming some of the phrases are meant to be similar to what I'm used to seeing) Also, the boxes selected don't change what shows in the box but the stats change with what's selected. Hence the first graph below is overall numbers, not a rate despite the box showing per 100K

https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general

I'm going to bump this due the talk about the israeli study.

Also, below are the updated numbers. As a snapshot, the two dose vaccine is not great at preventing infections but does offer some amount of prevention. Regardless, it is incredibly effective at preventing people from becoming seriously ill (though still not perfect). And, the booster shot is more effective at both preventing infection and preventing serious illness. Of course, this doesn't account for things like comorbidities, but there you have it.