Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[GatewaySnayke]

And have there really been smear jobs against Bush? This administration has had about...oh, 713 scandals.

[Socnorb11]

What I'm hearing is that you like that McCain's people don't mind being inflammatory, derogatory, etc. And it's certainly your right to admire that. It's just a different stance than what I'm used to hearing.

i generally feel that people have become to big of pussies these days, so ya i kind of liked it

Well, I admire your honesty, I guess.

To me, a guy that can take shot after shot and not feel the need to swing back below the belt is less of a "[expletive]" than the guy that continually take open shots just for the sake of making himself look like a tough guy.

[Popeye_Card]

I love this picture.



I think it's the gentle, loving expression on McCain's face.

[JCShutout]

And have there really been smear jobs against Bush? This administration has had about...oh, 713 scandals.

That's really a bit overboard and not fair. Its only 697 scandals.

Smears are lies. It's not a smear if you deserve it.

Bush the Younger will take his place in history as a complete failure
except to the uber-rich, the oil corps and the defense corps.

++

[docellis]

They put a no-holds-barred smear campaign on Bush the last eight years, and it's not like democratic party hacks have been mincing words against McCain or Palin.

Do you remember the 8 years spent attacking Clinton? It was far more vicious than anything I've ever seen done to, said about etc this administration.

[UK]

Indiana is hugely conservative, but they also have a lot of industries tied to the auto industry. If Obama can play that angle up, there's a small chance he could pull a coup there.

We're considered "in play" by Obama's people. Particularly if Obama maintains a lead or it's a tie in the national polls.

The national polls are getting a lot of talk, but has anyone broken down the state by state polls, and then added up the delegates? Obama's people have mentioned it, but they don't really have to lead the national polls. They need to lead the big delegate states, where I imagine they're doing fairly well.

My opinions from the state polls with the # of electoral votes on right:
Alaska-Strong JM 3
Alabama-Strong JM 9
Arkansas- strong JM 3
California strong BO 55
Co-toss 9
CT strong BO 7
DC strong BO 3
DE strong BO 3
FL lean JM 27
HI strong BO 4
IA strong BO 7
IL strong BO 21
IN lean JM 11
KS strong JM 6
KY strong JM 8
LA strong JM 9
MA strong BO 12
MD strong BO 10
ME strong BO 4
MI lean BO 17
MN lean BO 10
MO lean JM 11
MS strong JM 6
MT toss 3
NC lean JM 15
ND lean JM 3
NE strong JM 5
NH lean BO 4
NJ strong BO 15
NM lean BO 5
NV toss 5
NY strong BO 31
Ohio toss 20
Ok strong JM 7
OR strong BO 7
PA lean BO 21
RI strong BO 4
SC strong JM 8
SD lean JM 3
TN strong JM 11
TX strong JM 34
UT strong JM 5
VA toss 13
VT strong BO 3
WA strong BO 11
WI lean BO 10
WV strong JM 5
WY strong JM 3

With those calculations:
BO 197 strong electoral votes
JM 114 strong electoral votes

BO 77 lean electoral votes
JM 78 lean electoral votes

50 votes extremely up for grabs.

[Fat Strat]

They put a no-holds-barred smear campaign on Bush the last eight years, and it's not like democratic party hacks have been mincing words against McCain or Palin.

Smears are lies. It's not a smear if you deserve it.

Bush the Younger will take his place in history as a complete failure
except to the uber-rich, the oil corps and the defense corps.

Ok, so how about I replace smear with derogatory and inflammatory, then, if smear doesn't work? My point is that the posters -- most of them dems or Obama supporters -- here are making a big deal out of the republican attacks from the convention. But, neither party has been above these things in recent history, and both parties have plenty of ammunition to throw back into the face of the other party. You might be able to say that one is worse than the other or this wasn't as bad as that, but in the end, there has been plenty of mud slung to go around.

One side thinks it's an attack on Sarah Palin to question her experience as governor, belittle her time on the PTA, or to talk about her 17 year old pregnant daughter. The other side says it's not an attack if it's the truth. One side thinks it's an attack on Obama to question his experience as a Senator, belittle his time as a community organizer, or to talk about her wife's comments on not being proud of america. The other side says it's not an attack if it's the truth.

Both parties are going to throw stones. Mud is going to be slung, and most if it by party hacks and not the candidates. This is how elections go. It's not new. It's certainly not unique to one party or another. But, we shouldn't act surprised when we hear it.

[Popeye_Card]

"strong BO"

tee hee.

[Socnorb11]

They put a no-holds-barred smear campaign on Bush the last eight years, and it's not like democratic party hacks have been mincing words against McCain or Palin.

Smears are lies. It's not a smear if you deserve it.

Bush the Younger will take his place in history as a complete failure
except to the uber-rich, the oil corps and the defense corps.

Ok, so how about I replace smear with derogatory and inflammatory, then, if smear doesn't work? My point is that the posters -- most of them dems or Obama supporters -- here are making a big deal out of the republican attacks from the convention. But, neither party has been above these things in recent history, and both parties have plenty of ammunition to throw back into the face of the other party. You might be able to say that one is worse than the other or this wasn't as bad as that, but in the end, there has been plenty of mud slung to go around.

One side thinks it's an attack on Sarah Palin to question her experience as governor, belittle her time on the PTA, or to talk about her 17 year old pregnant daughter. The other side says it's not an attack if it's the truth. One side thinks it's an attack on Obama to question his experience as a Senator, belittle his time as a community organizer, or to talk about her wife's comments on not being proud of america. The other side says it's not an attack if it's the truth.

Both parties are going to throw stones. Mud is going to be slung, and most if it by party hacks and not the candidates. This is how elections go. It's not new. It's certainly not unique to one party or another. But, we shouldn't act surprised when we hear it.

If the Democrats wanted to sling mud, don't you think they would have done it at their convention? Sure, there will be idiots on CNN spewing insults both ways, but the real showcase for the parties to represent themselves was the conventions. I think the contrast in each party's strategy was eye-popping. The Democrats emphasized "hope" and "policy", while the Republicans spent two days mocking Barack Obama, and virtually nothing more.

I don't disagree that both "parties" have done plenty of mud-slinging in the past. But Barack and those close to his campaign have, by and large, taken the high road against both their own Democratic opponents and now against McCain/Palin.

[letsgocards89]

What I'm hearing is that you like that McCain's people don't mind being inflammatory, derogatory, etc. And it's certainly your right to admire that. It's just a different stance than what I'm used to hearing.

You really can't act like the democrats haven't used their fair share of inflammatory, derogatory language in recent elections. They put a no-holds-barred smear campaign on Bush the last eight years, and it's not like democratic party hacks have been mincing words against McCain or Palin.

Can you give me three good things that Bush has done over the last 8 years for this country? I'm not trying to bash the guy, but I don't see a whole lot of good.