Fine if you feel that way, but if so, you probably picked the wrong profession if you’re going to judge people for their personal health choices.
Funny, you judge people for their health choices all the time. This thread is full of your complaints that the healthcare system has to manage people with obesity and other chronic conditions resulting from their lifestyle choices.
If the ramifications of not getting vaccinated stopped at the borders of an individual's body, fine, but they don't. People choosing to go unvaccinated are negatively affecting the lives of others in their community. Other people are having their treatments delayed or being discharged from the hospital to make room for unvaccinated Covid patients. Cancer patients are being kicked out early because they need the room for unvaxxed Covid cases. There is no vaccine for cancer.
It's all about personal responsibility, right? So here's a suggestion. Unvaxxed people needing hospitalization must wait their turn. Stop booting out other patients to accommodate anti-vaxxers' personal choice. If the hospital is full when you need care, you have to wait until a spot opens up. You made your personal health decision and now you can accept the consequences. If you die while you wait, at least you died free.
I’ve got no problem w/ “waiting your turn”, whatever that means.
And I’ve only brought up obesity once in this discussion, but since you’ve brought it up, a person is as much control of that as anything else. No one is forcing that person to eat donuts, shoving fast food down their throats or drinking soda by the 2 liter.
My point was if a doctor isn’t going to have the same disdain towards them, then they shouldn’t feel any different towards someone not choosing to get a vaccine. By those terms they are both a drain on the system and it’s resources.
My main point was if you aren’t going to have compassion for those that walk into your hospital sick, and there are now cases where doctors are refusing to treat unvaccinated, then you’ve probably chosen the wrong profession.
The “dehumanizing” of the unvaccinated not only on this board, but as a whole is pretty [expletive] disgusting to be honest.
lol. you are not being dehumanized. your arguments are being countered and you are doing your best to combat them.
and i realize you're charles atlas but can easily call your statements on people not as healthy as you dehumanizing. some people have addictions with food, some people aren't educated, and yeah some people make bad choices. but you are blanket FAT = BAD. so yeah, whatever.
I’ve got no problem w/ “waiting your turn”, whatever that means.
And I’ve only brought up obesity once in this discussion, but since you’ve brought it up, a person is as much control of that as anything else. No one is forcing that person to eat donuts, shoving fast food down their throats or drinking soda by the 2 liter.
My point was if a doctor isn’t going to have the same disdain towards them, then they shouldn’t feel any different towards someone not choosing to get a vaccine. By those terms they are both a drain on the system and it’s resources.
My main point was if you aren’t going to have compassion for those that walk into your hospital sick, and there are now cases where doctors are refusing to treat unvaccinated, then you’ve probably chosen the wrong profession.
The “dehumanizing” of the unvaccinated not only on this board, but as a whole is pretty [expletive] disgusting to be honest.
Unvaccinated people are an identity group now? A dehumanized minority? Spare us the histrionics.
Fascinating that the same people who don't trust the system want the system to be there for them when facing the consequences of their distrust. You have alleged a global conspiracy in which researchers and doctors across the planet are hoodwinking people into taking dangerous vaccines that aren't going to help end the pandemic anyway and might be actually making it worse. And yet you want the same doctors whose integrity you impugn to save your life if you get hospitalized from Covid, an outcome almost completely preventable through a safe, effective, free, now easily available vaccine.
Anti-vaxxers are classic freeloaders. They want all the benefits of the commons without contributing anything to them. Has it occurred to you that hospital staff have been dealing with this daily nightmare for 18 months? That they are sick and tired of being sick and tired. You complain about possibly being forced by your employer to get vaccinated. How hard that must be. Perhaps, like the doctors you malign, you have chosen the wrong profession.
We should keep in mind that comorbidity is relative to a specific disease, rather than a general state of health.
My comorbidity is my age--something that shouldn't be a particular risk factor in the U.S. in the early 21st century, but is related to this particular disease.
In other words, with the term comorbidity, we're talking about 'fitness' in the Darwinian sense, not the sense of 'general health.' The disease changed the environment in which I live, and in which I would be deemed fit, or ideally adapted, if that makes sense.
Final warning before this thread gets locked. If we want to discuss the coronavirus and its impact on the world right now, by all means.
But you're not going to change anyones opinions on vaccinations or COVID on a baseball forum. If all we're going to do is bicker then i'm locking this thread.
Quick question, who is more deserving of hospital staff/resources/room? A drunk driver that just plowed into another car, killing the other driver, or an unvaccinated person short of breath? Strawman? Sure. But, it's silly to think the ER, in particular, and hospital less so is only used by some angelic population that hasn't made ridiculously bad decisions resulting in their visit.
The medical community is going to treat anyone, regardless of past decisions. Rather or not they are sympathetic to them is irrelevant. The real issue is their apathy is going to prevent them from working covid, in particular.
Also, to my original point that we talked about a while ago, the biggest issue is that hospitals plan according to what's happening. As covid cases/hospitalizations rise, resources (staff, space, etc) are diverted to address those needs. Because covid patients are more acute/critical, the resources are diverted to them from less acute needs. That's dehumanizing. Asking where that line is drawn, or if covid cases should still take precedence is dehumanizing. It's crazy to argue it's not.
Unvaccinated people are unnecessarily pushing hospital systems and the collective ability to care for the sick, all sick people, to another crisis point. It's hell on our healthcare workers, hell on the Covid patients, and hell on everyone less acute who gets pushed out to make room for them.
Stating that fact hurts unvaccinated people's feelings, but it does not dehumanize them. Saying, as I did, that they should be placed on a lower priority of care is dehumanizing and I will retract it, though I was just making an exaggerated point about the "personal responsibility" claims of anti-mask and anti-vaccine mandate politicians. I don't really believe we should deny them care. I'm not actually that cold.
Unvaccinated people are unnecessarily pushing hospital systems and the collective ability to care for the sick, all sick people, to another crisis point. It's hell on our healthcare workers, hell on the Covid patients, and hell on everyone less acute who gets pushed out to make room for them.
Stating that fact hurts unvaccinated people's feelings, but it does not dehumanize them. Saying, as I did, that they should be placed on a lower priority of care is dehumanizing and I will retract it, though I was just making an exaggerated point about the "personal responsibility" claims of anti-mask and anti-vaccine mandate politicians. I don't really believe we should deny them care. I'm not actually that cold.
Understood. I meant more in the broader sense that the entire medical system is dehumanizing. It's more like, well, this person is code X and this person is code Y, X>Y, ipso facto let's take code X. Caregivers bring life and personality and a humanization to patients, but the overall system is decidedly methodical and dehumanized in its approach. This can be seen in what medicines are approved by insurance companies, what patients are seen first at the ER, how long it takes to be seen by a Dr in certain situations, etc.
Unvaccinated people are unnecessarily pushing hospital systems and the collective ability to care for the sick, all sick people, to another crisis point. It's hell on our healthcare workers, hell on the Covid patients, and hell on everyone less acute who gets pushed out to make room for them.
Stating that fact hurts unvaccinated people's feelings, but it does not dehumanize them. Saying, as I did, that they should be placed on a lower priority of care is dehumanizing and I will retract it, though I was just making an exaggerated point about the "personal responsibility" claims of anti-mask and anti-vaccine mandate politicians. I don't really believe we should deny them care. I'm not actually that cold.
Understood. I meant more in the broader sense that the entire medical system is dehumanizing. It's more like, well, this person is code X and this person is code Y, X>Y, ipso facto let's take code X. Caregivers bring life and personality and a humanization to patients, but the overall system is decidedly methodical and dehumanized in its approach. This can be seen in what medicines are approved by insurance companies, what patients are seen first at the ER, how long it takes to be seen by a Dr in certain situations, etc.
Ah, I did miss that but your analogy to drunk drivers and point about people ending up in the ER all the time for making bad decisions was a good one. It made me rethink my previous comments. Non-vaccinated Covid patients do deserve all the care they can get without moral judgement.
Which is all apart from the conversation about whether or not to get vaccinated, which is so obviously the right thing to do it's almost absurd to keep even debating it.
