Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[InvincibleCakeEater]

Whether you agree with Mccain's position on the war or not doesn't matter. The POW thing is mentioned because it shaped him and because it puts him in the light of having formed his decision while being sympathetic to the tragedies of war. This isn't some favored son who's never faced horror and atrocity. Whether you agree with him or not, you do have to acknowledge that he has an understanding of the horror of war. That's why it is constantly highlighted.

Obama growing up as a black man in America probably had a great deal to do with shaping him. He's certainly not playing that card....... not once. Why? Because he doesn't stand to gain politically from it. McCain stands to gain political leverege from being a POW.

You really cannot compare these two things to each other.

Why can't you?

What possibly could Obama have dealt with growing up to compare to what McCain suffered through during his 5 1/2 years as a Prisoner of War?

You're not being serious right?

[Michael]

I think McCain of 2000 would have done better. His age is showing more these days.

I <3 2000 McCain. did you know I worked on his campaign? That feels like ages ago.

I hate to say he's changed a little for the worse in other ways. I'd like to think if he gets elected, we see that guy again.

I hope so to. He moved right and I've moved left. That being said, I'd be pretty happy with 2000 McCain, but I think he's gone. Just compare the differences in his tax plans.

[ghostrunner]

I think the Republican Convention energized both parties. That's a good thing.

What I don't get is how McCain can try to distance himself from the mess that Bush made, when he's voted with Bush 90% of the time.

I don't think that's accurate. He's obviously not trying to distance himself from Iraq. He is a Republican, so it shouldn't be surprising that he voted that way. I could be wrong, but I doubt you're going to find anyone besides maybe Ron Paul who voted with Bush under 80% of the time.

[Freed Roger]

I'm really sick of this completely inaccurate lie that gets bandied about constantly from the right side that Democrats raise taxes and spending and Republicans reduce them.

I don't know who's said that. I think Fat has been pretty fair on that point.

I'd say both parties raise spending though I do think Republicans generally cut taxes more. That's more irresponsible in a way since the cuts aren't "paid for." So I'd like someone to cut both, but that hasn't happened since we had Clinton in the White House and a Republican Congress.

this "tax cut" discussion is all really irrelevant. The govt has massive debt. We have deficits. The tax cuts are really tax deferrals to future generations. Or as I like to say a TAX ON UNBORN CHILDREN. (

they are going to have to collect taxes to pay for this debt, the war, bail out SS etc etc. Might as well face it. So the concept of tax cuts is a fantasy. they may cut your fed income tax for show, but there will have to be a backdoor tax at some other level to make up for it.

And what is the point of these tax cuts anyhow - Federal taxes have been cut and cut over the last 8 years (mainly for upper incomes). Besides the tax cuts, the fed has lowered interest rates, high govt military spending.... what more can a govt do to stimulate the economy? They even sent us checks.

These methods of stimulating the economy is like giving your kid a donut and mountain dew for energy. They'll be hyped up for a while until they crash later.

GOP solution for everything economic - Cut taxes. GOP solution for foreign policy - military.

[Socnorb11]

I think the Republican Convention energized both parties. That's a good thing.

What I don't get is how McCain can try to distance himself from the mess that Bush made, when he's voted with Bush 90% of the time.

I don't think that's accurate. He's obviously not trying to distance himself from Iraq. He is a Republican, so it shouldn't be surprising that he voted that way. I could be wrong, but I doubt you're going to find anyone besides maybe Ron Paul who voted with Bush under 80% of the time.

Oh, it's not the least bit surprising. But you can't have it both ways. Either you're with Bush (which McCain has seemed to be up until it became inconvenient to do so) or you're not (which it appears is his position right now).

You can't cling to your "experience" in Washington, and then proclaim that Washington is a mess that needs to be cleaned up. If you're the one that's been there experiencing it, and it's a mess, then you're at least partially responsible for the mess.

[wart57]

Whether you agree with Mccain's position on the war or not doesn't matter. The POW thing is mentioned because it shaped him and because it puts him in the light of having formed his decision while being sympathetic to the tragedies of war. This isn't some favored son who's never faced horror and atrocity. Whether you agree with him or not, you do have to acknowledge that he has an understanding of the horror of war. That's why it is constantly highlighted.

Obama growing up as a black man in America probably had a great deal to do with shaping him. He's certainly not playing that card....... not once. Why? Because he doesn't stand to gain politically from it. McCain stands to gain political leverege from being a POW.

You really cannot compare these two things to each other.

Why can't you?

What possibly could Obama have dealt with growing up to compare to what McCain suffered through during his 5 1/2 years as a Prisoner of War?

I'm not saying that he suffered as much, or in the same way. I'm just saying that growing up as a black man in a mostly white America surely shaped who he is.

Isn't he half white? My adopted sister is half black, and half white and she had a terrible time growing up. Not fully accepted by the white community and virtually shunned by the black community. I can understand that Obama had a very difficult time growing up, and that should never be discounted. But to discount an experience by a man who was tortured, placed in a small cell, and not given much medical attention afterwards, and when given the chance to be released early, put his fellow prisoners above himself, to me is a most jaded and cynical outlook to have.

[clement]

McCain's problem for many of the people that he used to appeal to is that he pretty much had no choice (if he wanted to be president) but to repair his relationship with the Republican party. He pretty much has done that over the past 8 years, though there are still many skeptics. That helps put him on the ticket, but it disenchants him with a lot of the more independent-minded people who were attracted to his message in 2000. But make no mistake, he would not be on the ticket today if he hadn't changed his message and behaviour from what it was in 2000.

To me one of the biggest concerns I have about McCain (and it's more about the Republican party than him personally) is the effect his election could have on the judicial system. I do not want this country being ruled by people who use a particular religion as a basis for their interpretation of laws and the Constitution. And as bad as George W. Bush has been on policy and foreign relations and economy, he has also appointed 2 Supreme Court justices and countless other federal judges and far too many of them are on the idealogical right on social issues. Unfortunately the judicial appointment process which used to be non-partisan has become a very political activity. And I'm very scared that McCain as president would be beholden to pressures from the religious right to continue judicial appointments in this vein.

[UK]

I'm sure you all want to hear my opinion on this (well maybe not TFG as he's prob. thinking the same thing).

The beginning was slow, slightly helter skelter due to the protestors and how the relationship between McCain and the crowd and their applause pattern. I never quite understood how they could not follow his speech patterns.

It progressively became better once he started talking about his past and finished quite nicely.

I was extremely disappointed with the protestors despite having been against the war from the start, I respecft that freedom of speech allows them that right, but disrupting McCain's freedom of speech and his civil rights is a gross misuse of power which you're claiming to be fighting for.

I don't see a significant jump in the polls, it wasn't quite good enough to do that, but this election will be decided in debates and is still likely up in the air.

[Socnorb11]

Whether you agree with Mccain's position on the war or not doesn't matter. The POW thing is mentioned because it shaped him and because it puts him in the light of having formed his decision while being sympathetic to the tragedies of war. This isn't some favored son who's never faced horror and atrocity. Whether you agree with him or not, you do have to acknowledge that he has an understanding of the horror of war. That's why it is constantly highlighted.

Obama growing up as a black man in America probably had a great deal to do with shaping him. He's certainly not playing that card....... not once. Why? Because he doesn't stand to gain politically from it. McCain stands to gain political leverege from being a POW.

You really cannot compare these two things to each other.

Why can't you?

What possibly could Obama have dealt with growing up to compare to what McCain suffered through during his 5 1/2 years as a Prisoner of War?

I'm not saying that he suffered as much, or in the same way. I'm just saying that growing up as a black man in a mostly white America surely shaped who he is.

Isn't he half white? My adopted sister is half black, and half white and she had a terrible time growing up. Not fully accepted by the white community and virtually shunned by the black community. I can understand that Obama had a very difficult time growing up, and that should never be discounted. But to discount an experience by a man who was tortured, placed in a small cell, and not given much medical attention afterwards, and when given the chance to be released early, put his fellow prisoners above himself, to me is a most jaded and cynical outlook to have.

I've already said that they were different experiences, but experiences that shaped each man, nontheless.

[fulldeck]

Whether you agree with Mccain's position on the war or not doesn't matter. The POW thing is mentioned because it shaped him and because it puts him in the light of having formed his decision while being sympathetic to the tragedies of war. This isn't some favored son who's never faced horror and atrocity. Whether you agree with him or not, you do have to acknowledge that he has an understanding of the horror of war. That's why it is constantly highlighted.

Obama growing up as a black man in America probably had a great deal to do with shaping him. He's certainly not playing that card....... not once. Why? Because he doesn't stand to gain politically from it. McCain stands to gain political leverege from being a POW.

You really cannot compare these two things to each other.

Why can't you?

What possibly could Obama have dealt with growing up to compare to what McCain suffered through during his 5 1/2 years as a Prisoner of War?

So it's about the suffering he endured? I don't understand.

People have been mentioned in this thread that others shouldn't harp on Obama being black or Palin being a woman as a reason to vote for someone. Now, Obama's youth as a black man is being compared to McCain being a POW. It doesn't work with me. If you want to compare Obama's youth as a black man to McCain living on a military base, fine, but that should be where it stops.