Joe Maddon to the Cubs. UPDATE: He’s gone (p 19)

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Bad faith strawmen are his thing, it's not going to be a productive rabbit hole. Chapman is a bad person, the Cubs needed him and almost certainly a player of his quality and ability to handle some intense postseason workloads in order to win the world series, Gleyber Torres is Placido Polanco, which is not an insult but boy I do not feel bad at all about trading a 3 win 2B/DH for a guy who was indispensable to winning the title, a fact obivous to anyone who isn't starting with the precondition to try to prove the opposite.

[Big Amoco Sign]

Bad faith strawmen are his thing, it's not going to be a productive rabbit hole. Chapman is a bad person, the Cubs needed him and almost certainly a player of his quality and ability to handle some intense postseason workloads in order to win the world series, Gleyber Torres is Placido Polanco, which is not an insult but boy I do not feel bad at all about trading a 3 win 2B/DH for a guy who was indispensable to winning the title, a fact obivous to anyone who isn't starting with the precondition to try to prove the opposite.

I agree about the title, first off. But 3.6 win 2Bs are pretty tough to come by these days. That's guaranteed top 5-7 for the position. And no doubt he can elevate to 4-5 WAR.

Who are the Cubs planning to start at 2B in 2020? Russell? Bote? Hoerner? I wouldn't have faith in any of those guys if I'm a Cubs fan.

Not sure I get the Polanco comp. Pretty different players.

[BottenFieldofDreams]

I don't know how you make a Cubs fan look back on any decision from 2016 with regret.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Bad faith strawmen are his thing, it's not going to be a productive rabbit hole. Chapman is a bad person, the Cubs needed him and almost certainly a player of his quality and ability to handle some intense postseason workloads in order to win the world series, Gleyber Torres is Placido Polanco, which is not an insult but boy I do not feel bad at all about trading a 3 win 2B/DH for a guy who was indispensable to winning the title, a fact obivous to anyone who isn't starting with the precondition to try to prove the opposite.

I agree about the title, first off. But 3.6 win 2Bs are pretty tough to come by these days. That's guaranteed top 5-7 for the position. And no doubt he can elevate to 4-5 WAR.

Who are the Cubs planning to start at 2B in 2020? Russell? Bote? Hoerner? I wouldn't have faith in any of those guys if I'm a Cubs fan.

Not sure I get the Polanco comp. Pretty different players.

That's fine, we can agree to disagree, I've always been a low guy on Torres even back before he was traded. I think this year represents a high water mark for him(half of his fWAR came by crushing the Orioles, which doesn't strike me as too sustainable), plus he's a -14 UZR 2B before age 23, so he's gonna need to move down the defensive spectrum soon. He's a nice player, I'd take him(by a small margin) over the Cubs current 2B situation, but he's never going to be a Top 5 player on a championship caliber team, and therefore I don't feel any remorse about trading him in A-Ball for a title-winning piece.

[Big Amoco Sign]

Bad faith strawmen are his thing, it's not going to be a productive rabbit hole. Chapman is a bad person, the Cubs needed him and almost certainly a player of his quality and ability to handle some intense postseason workloads in order to win the world series, Gleyber Torres is Placido Polanco, which is not an insult but boy I do not feel bad at all about trading a 3 win 2B/DH for a guy who was indispensable to winning the title, a fact obivous to anyone who isn't starting with the precondition to try to prove the opposite.

I agree about the title, first off. But 3.6 win 2Bs are pretty tough to come by these days. That's guaranteed top 5-7 for the position. And no doubt he can elevate to 4-5 WAR.

Who are the Cubs planning to start at 2B in 2020? Russell? Bote? Hoerner? I wouldn't have faith in any of those guys if I'm a Cubs fan.

Not sure I get the Polanco comp. Pretty different players.

That's fine, we can agree to disagree, I've always been a low guy on Torres even back before he was traded. I think this year represents a high water mark for him(half of his fWAR came by crushing the Orioles, which doesn't strike me as too sustainable), plus he's a -14 UZR 2B before age 23, so he's gonna need to move down the defensive spectrum soon. He's a nice player, I'd take him(by a small margin) over the Cubs current 2B situation, but he's never going to be a Top 5 player on a championship caliber team, and therefore I don't feel any remorse about trading him in A-Ball for a title-winning piece.

125 wRC+ with a sub-.300 BABIP and XSLG sitting at .476. I think he'll be okay with the stick no matter who he's facing. And if the Orioles aren't bad, then the Rays or Blue Jays will be. Baseball has enough bad pitchers to go around. He also played Astros and Red Sox really well this year.

2B is a good position to have a statue in the shift age. He might be the Yankees 1B if he just focuses on hitting. He'd be a plus there and still a 3-4 WAR player. But in regards to the Cubs, I see your point. Yet, I don't like any of the Cubs's 2B options. They all suck.

Desmond with more power and better eye?

[dan_yall]

I watched the game yesterday in an empty bar at Belmont and Sheffield. The bartender and I were in agreement that the Cubs we're dumb to let Maddon go. She also hates all the new development around Wrigley and asked if I could pick her up some holy water from Our Lady of the Snows the next time I'm in St Louis. Fun lady.

[Socnorb11]

Bad faith strawmen are his thing, it's not going to be a productive rabbit hole. Chapman is a bad person, the Cubs needed him and almost certainly a player of his quality and ability to handle some intense postseason workloads in order to win the world series, Gleyber Torres is Placido Polanco, which is not an insult but boy I do not feel bad at all about trading a 3 win 2B/DH for a guy who was indispensable to winning the title, a fact obivous to anyone who isn't starting with the precondition to try to prove the opposite.

I simply disagree about him being indispensable to winning a title. That's all. He was a relief pitcher in the post-season. That's it. He wasn't a lights-out relief pitcher, just a relief pitcher.

If Genesis Cabrera puts up some mediocre relief numbers in the World Series this year, are we going to say that the Cardinals were smart to trade Tommy Pham? I'm not.

We can have disagreements....... the personal attacks aren't necessary.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Bad faith strawmen are his thing

If Genesis Cabrera puts up some mediocre relief numbers in the World Series this year, are we going to say that the Cardinals were smart to trade Tommy Pham? I'm not.

[Socnorb11]

Bad faith strawmen are his thing

If Genesis Cabrera puts up some mediocre relief numbers in the World Series this year, are we going to say that the Cardinals were smart to trade Tommy Pham? I'm not.

How is that a strawman?

The Cubs traded for Chapman, and the Cubs won the World Series. Just because those two things happened, it doesn't necessarily make it a good trade. Frankly, I feel like the Cubs won Game 7 in spite of Chapman, not because of him.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Bad faith strawmen are his thing

If Genesis Cabrera puts up some mediocre relief numbers in the World Series this year, are we going to say that the Cardinals were smart to trade Tommy Pham? I'm not.

How is that a strawman?

It's a mystery, seems like a pretty analogous situation to me!