Michael Sam - NFL's first openly gay prospect

[stlouie_lipp]

I can't wait until he gets cut. This thread is really going to explode!

[Schlich]

I think that Dungy has every right to say what he said. He knows more about locker room culture than anybody here, or any of the media who are writing scathing articles today. He thinks that the circus surrounding Sam would cause distractions. More than likely, he's correct. It's more of a condemnation of the media than it is of Sam.

At the same time, he shouldn't take that stance unless he's willing to take the same stance with Michael Vick. He also shouldn't take that stance, in light of the fact that he was a black coach who would have never gotten an opportunity if people of his mindset had prevailed. Personally, THOSE are the questions that I'd like to see him answer. The Sam stuff is old news.

See, but, this isn't about "locker room culture," this is about his very untransparent bigotry couched in deceitful and hurtful language. The "distractions" are because of the Tony Dungies of the world.

[Jocephus]

I can't wait until he gets cut. This thread is really going to explode!

at least he'll have had an opportunity.

In the definition of the American Dream by James Truslow Adams in 1931, "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth.

whats more important? removing distractions or the american dream?

[Freed Roger]

There are hundreds of players on draft boards that are on the fence with on-field potential, and the off-field factors, whatever they may be, are enough to choose not to draft them. This all goes without saying, draft boards don't have to explain what the off-field factors were.

I wouldn't doubt some NFL teams shared Dungy's view that Sam's homosexuality is a problem or the media circus around outweighs his potential - but none of them that I recall were dumb enough to single Sam out for elaboration as to why they didn't draft him, other than they viewed he wasn't good enough to draft.

Is there a precedent for a Defensive Player of the Year in the best conference in the country dropping to the 7th round of the draft?

I guarantee you that every team in the NFL considered Sam's homosexuality when putting together their draft board. I can't prove it.

I don't follow it closely to know about the precedence. 15 Heisman Trophy winners have gone undrafted, FWIW (offense I know).

Maybe it had some to do with the combines, and his size may have been a concern, and then there was that Auburn disaster.

Probably some NFL team factored the homosexuality, and probably all factored the media circus side. None that I recall were dumb enough to cite that as reasoning though. They may have gotten in trouble legally if they did:

an Equal Opportunity Employer, and will recruit and employ qualified personnel and will provide equal opportunities during employment without regard to race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, age, disability or any other basis prohibited by applicable law.

Dungy, obviously, is not held to that law in his job at NBC. Yeah, Dungy was being honest to his views, and what he said may match what some NFL teams were thinking.

I won't go on, too much like a broken record. IMO - Dungy as an analyst is a bore. This lowers my opinion of him even more. Apparantly others agree - and since his job is basically an ex-NFLer popularity contest -there's no reason for NBC to keep him on.

[MrSaigon]

Dungy is right inasmuch as there's an extra cost to drafting Sam. I'm happy someone was willing to pay it. Dungy is overestimating it. As I said, I may have done so myself in this thread. I do see a lack of leadership and hypocrisy in his comments, but I don't quite see the level of poison in what Dungy said that others do.

Here's the original quote:

"I wouldn't have taken him. Not because I don't believe Michael Sam should have a chance to play, but I wouldn't want to deal with all of it. It's not going to be totally smooth…things will happen."

I wish he did want to 'deal with all of it.' He has dealt with 'all of' comparable stuff. He definitely could have chosen his words better or in greater detail or not chosen any at all. If we take him at his word here and in his clarification, I don't see anything hateful until we add the Christian subtext which I don't believe is fair unless Dungy has some other quotes about homosexuality.

[Jocephus]

Dungy is an evangelical Christian and at one point in his coaching career considered leaving football for the prison ministry.[7] Throughout his career, he has remained involved with community service organizations.[39] On March 20, 2007, Dungy aligned himself with a socially conservative organization, the Indiana Family Institute, and openly supported an amendment to the Indiana constitution which would have defined marriage as solely between one man and one woman.[40] Dungy also appeared in a testimonial video on I Am Second, in which he shares his story of his personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

i dont think we are guessing on what he thinks religiously. and, if you are christian (religious), doesn't that impact your decisions? doesn't ones relationship with whichever god they choose to follow always come first?

[Schlich]

I wish he did want to 'deal with all of it.' He has dealt with 'all of' comparable stuff. He definitely could have chosen his words better or in greater detail or not chosen any at all. If we take him at his word here and in his clarification, I don't see anything hateful until we add the Christian subtext which I don't believe is fair unless Dungy has some other quotes about homosexuality.

Yup. If he wanted to actually hold to his Christian values instead of being a hypocritical idiot, he'd be the first one in line to 'deal with all of it.'

[Freed Roger]

I can't wait until he gets cut. This thread is really going to explode!

Indeed.

"It's not going to be easy," Fisher said of Sam's path. "We're too deep at defensive end. But he deserves a chance."

[Socnorb11]

I think that Dungy has every right to say what he said. He knows more about locker room culture than anybody here, or any of the media who are writing scathing articles today. He thinks that the circus surrounding Sam would cause distractions. More than likely, he's correct. It's more of a condemnation of the media than it is of Sam.

At the same time, he shouldn't take that stance unless he's willing to take the same stance with Michael Vick. He also shouldn't take that stance, in light of the fact that he was a black coach who would have never gotten an opportunity if people of his mindset had prevailed. Personally, THOSE are the questions that I'd like to see him answer. The Sam stuff is old news.

See, but, this isn't about "locker room culture," this is about his very untransparent bigotry couched in deceitful and hurtful language. The "distractions" are because of the Tony Dungies of the world.

There is absolutely bigotry in the world. I don't have any evidence that Tony Dungy is a bigot, however.

Again, why no outrage about Charles Barkley making fun of black women? Why no outrage when people on this very forum get a big hoot out of making fun of Kelly Clarkson's weight issues? Why are we only concerened with defending homosexuals? Why shouldn't ALL humans be judged on what they bring to the world, and no irrelevant side issues?

[Freed Roger]

Again, why no outrage about Charles Barkley making fun of black women? Why no outrage when people on this very forum get a big hoot out of making fun of Kelly Clarkson's weight issues? Why are we only concerened with defending homosexuals? Why shouldn't ALL humans be judged on what they bring to the world, and no irrelevant side issues?

Michael says we have to start new threads for all those topics.