maddash wrote:Doesn't that seem, at it's root, an unfair process of evaluation?
Isn't that the way we form opinions most of the time? Do people make a systematic investigation of something like Chinese food, or do they try it a couple times, dislike it, and move on? Of course most people wouldn't go from that to claiming that Chinese food is some of the worst cuisine in the world...
Yes, and I think the distinction is how far a person is willing to go into the different genres and schools and whatnot. For example: the abstract expressionist movement of painting is probably small enough a sub-genre to get away with saying "you've seen one, you've seen them all", but it also fits into the Postmodern Art category. It's one thing to say you don't like Jackson Pollock and move on, but to say that Pollock's work is enough to turn you away from Postmodern Art... well, that's a different story. There's a point at which the classification is "pure" enough for you to make an "informed" opinion about, and of course, that changes from person to person. There's really not set answer to "what is enough" to make a judgment or not.
I didn't really read through all of it but it sounds like socnorb against the world. I guess I'm more in the middle. I like a lot of rap music. A lot of the CDs I actually own are rap CDs. But I'm not going to argue with someone that finds the lyrics to be offensive, demeaning to/objectifying women and glorifying violence. The fact is the overwhelming majority of them are. To argue otherwise is kind of absurd. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy the musical aspect. And that also doesn't mean that those people's complaints don't have some validity.
cardsfansince82 wrote:Wow this thread really blew up today.
I didn't really read through all of it but it sounds like socnorb against the world. I guess I'm more in the middle. I like a lot of rap music. A lot of the CDs I actually own are rap CDs. But I'm not going to argue with someone that finds the lyrics to be offensive, demeaning to/objectifying women and glorifying violence. The fact is the overwhelming majority of them are. To argue otherwise is kind of absurd. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy the musical aspect. And that also doesn't mean that those people's complaints don't have some validity.
This is not even remotely close to true. In fact, I'd say about 70 percent of the rap ever songs don't mention women at all, let alone "degrade them".
There are plenty of hip hop acts that aren't the **** that you guys are arguing about. Of my 1500 or so song Hip Hop playlist I'm scanning through, I would say 40% are mainstream rappers who definitely put out mysogenistic music at least half the time. Most of my stuff, though, is pretty positive, or just wacky, or introspective, etc etc.
I used to argue with people to get them to appreciate hip hop music for the great things it has going for it. I give up nowdays. Plenty of people think your music sucks, too. It's all subjective.
cardsfansince82 wrote:Wow this thread really blew up today.
I didn't really read through all of it but it sounds like socnorb against the world. I guess I'm more in the middle. I like a lot of rap music. A lot of the CDs I actually own are rap CDs. But I'm not going to argue with someone that finds the lyrics to be offensive, demeaning to/objectifying women and glorifying violence. The fact is the overwhelming majority of them are. To argue otherwise is kind of absurd. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy the musical aspect. And that also doesn't mean that those people's complaints don't have some validity.
This is not even remotely close to true. In fact, I'd say about 70 percent of the rap ever songs don't mention women at all, let alone "degrade them".
Or guns, or violence, or drugs or money? I suspect this isn't true but let's pretend for the moment that it is. Take all of those artists and lump them together. They haven't sold as many records as Eminem by himself. If I were to make a list of the top, say 20 to be safe, selling rap artists of all time off the top of my head: Dre, Snoop, Eminem, Jay Z, Nas, Lil Jon, 2Pac, Biggie, 50 Cent, Master P, Ice Cube, DMX and Wu Tang would all definitely be there. They all have tons of lyrics that would not pass the reasonable person test. That doesn't stop me from buying their albums. But if someone doesn't like it they are entitled to their opinion.
cardsfansince82 wrote:Wow this thread really blew up today.
I didn't really read through all of it but it sounds like socnorb against the world. I guess I'm more in the middle. I like a lot of rap music. A lot of the CDs I actually own are rap CDs. But I'm not going to argue with someone that finds the lyrics to be offensive, demeaning to/objectifying women and glorifying violence. The fact is the overwhelming majority of them are. To argue otherwise is kind of absurd. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy the musical aspect. And that also doesn't mean that those people's complaints don't have some validity.
This is not even remotely close to true. In fact, I'd say about 70 percent of the rap ever songs don't mention women at all, let alone "degrade them".
Or guns, or violence, or drugs or money? I suspect this isn't true but let's pretend for the moment that it is. Take all of those artists and lump them together. They haven't sold as many records as Eminem by himself. If I were to make a list of the top, say 20 to be safe, selling rap artists of all time off the top of my head: Dre, Snoop, Eminem, Jay Z, Nas, Lil Jon, 2Pac, Biggie, 50 Cent, Master P, Ice Cube, DMX and Wu Tang would all definitely be there. They all have tons of lyrics that would not pass the reasonable person test. That doesn't stop me from buying their albums. But if someone doesn't like it they are entitled to their opinion.
Depends on what you you consider reasonable. And all the artists you listed has many songs that are not perpetuating violence, sex, or drugs.
And plenty of these guys are pretty heartfelt about their conflicting opinions; at one end they want to be Gangsta, and on the other end they want urban culture to get past the Thug Life mentality. Similarly, you see plenty of objectification of women, and also plenty of pretty honest love songs.
Pop rap is pretty retarded, and that's what 95% of the complaints come from. Rock n Roll music is, what, 75% drugs and sex? So who really gives a rat's ass? Keep your kids from buying Three 6 Mafia and you'll be fine.
By the way. I own three Three 6 Mafia albums. Yep.
I've didn't know a rant thread could get so large.