Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

[planet planet]

As impatient as we (diehard fans) are, I'm impressed by Mo sticking to his guns. This is his managerial moment, soon to be followed by Pujols' negotiations.

Has he? Some here would argue that we're bidding against ourselves and throwing multiple millions more than is necessary to sign him.

We'll see when the final figures are public. Right now, Matt Holliday is the hottest player on the FA market and so far it seems like Mo is not blinking.

[Richie Allen]

As impatient as we (diehard fans) are, I'm impressed by Mo sticking to his guns. This is his managerial moment, soon to be followed by Pujols' negotiations.

Has he? Some here would argue that we're bidding against ourselves and throwing multiple millions more than is necessary to sign him.

that argument was when we were talking 5 years $98.5 million. The current rumors have it back down to the $17-18 million a year range, which most of us are happy with and feel like Mo stuck to his guns when he could have bid himself up to the aforementioned 5 year $98.5 million range.

What's the current rumor. I haven't heard it.

[Michael]

From the PD:

Negotiations have touched on a variety of frameworks, ranging from five years to eight. Boras has pursued a minimum $18 million annual average value within a longer deal. Any deal is also expected to include a full no-trade clause.

The weekend's summit focused on a longer-term deal worth around $17 million annually, suggesting the club is prepared to secure Holliday with a more lucrative deal than the seven-year, $100 million extension first baseman Albert Pujols signed as a first-time arbitration-eligible player in February 2003. Pujols' deal also includes significant deferred money.

Recent talks have focused on longer-term deals. The Cardinals may seek an unconventional structure since back-loading a contract for Holliday would time his most expensive seasons concurrently with a hoped-for extension with Pujols.

In addition to full no-trade protection, Boras has previously negotiated opt-out clauses in deals for star clients such as New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez, Boston Red Sox outfielder J.D. Drew and Los Angeles Dodgers left fielder Manny Ramirez.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports ... enDocument


I assume that means 7 years @ 17 per with a full NTC and deferred money.

[haltz]

Do you really think he's going to go into the tank that bad? There's obviously more options, probably much more realistic, than rake and tank. I think we'll be able to weather the storm of two more years of Holliday is, God forbid, he decides not to opt out.

No, I don't think he will, I think it's possible. There's a large amount of risk with any contract this size. Gorman Thomas hit like a SS after age 31. It happens. Manny raked. It happens.

The most likely scenario according to ZiPS is that he's defensively neutral and a 125 OPS+ hitter. That's fine. I don't know if he'd stay or go at that point. Depends on the market I guess.

But still, we're talking about the upside and downside of the deal, and if he gets an opt-out, we're assuming the downside risk only. That is a bad thing.

Or if he's the much more likely, somewhere between "sucking" and being an elite all star that demands 28 year old HOFer money at the age of 35.

I agree, but that's not the point.

I just don't see why this is a concessionthat needs to be made when it seems like there are zero teams in on this. But again, we don't know for sure who's in on it and what concessions have been made, so it's all hypothetical at this point.

[Richie Allen]

From the PD:

Negotiations have touched on a variety of frameworks, ranging from five years to eight. Boras has pursued a minimum $18 million annual average value within a longer deal. Any deal is also expected to include a full no-trade clause.

The weekend's summit focused on a longer-term deal worth around $17 million annually, suggesting the club is prepared to secure Holliday with a more lucrative deal than the seven-year, $100 million extension first baseman Albert Pujols signed as a first-time arbitration-eligible player in February 2003. Pujols' deal also includes significant deferred money.

Recent talks have focused on longer-term deals. The Cardinals may seek an unconventional structure since back-loading a contract for Holliday would time his most expensive seasons concurrently with a hoped-for extension with Pujols.

In addition to full no-trade protection, Boras has previously negotiated opt-out clauses in deals for star clients such as New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez, Boston Red Sox outfielder J.D. Drew and Los Angeles Dodgers left fielder Manny Ramirez.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports ... enDocument


I assume that means 7 years @ 17 per with a full NTC and deferred money.

Didn't they already turn down 7/140 ($17.5 per)?

[Michael]

From who? I don't think so.

17m is 7/119.

[haltz]

you mean 8/140 and that would shock me.

[Richie Allen]

I just don't see why this is a concessionthat needs to be made when it seems like there are zero teams in on this. But again, we don't know for sure who's in on it and what concessions have been made, so it's all hypothetical at this point.

I agree but there must be some reason it was brought up. My fear is that if we don't get this done now (next couple days) we both move on and the chances of us signing him are zero, even if there doesn't appear to be another front runner that's apparent.

[Richie Allen]

you mean 8/140 and that would shock me.

You're right. The rumors around new years was that we were offering 8/140 and they turned it down because they wanted 7 years. The speculation was they would want 7/140.

[Michael]

I suspect the opt-out is in play. Boras' other client's opt-out are mentioned in the PD article.