Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[GatewaySnayke]

Rove's thoughts on the convention (which I missed tonight while doing other things)...

Tonight in many ways "demolished" the view of Obama as being bi-partisan, and setting McCain up as the one who is truly reaching across the aisle.

I dunno, I've never really thought that Obama was bi-partisan, just someone who promises to work with Republicans. Plus, voting with Bush 90 percent of the time and all that.

as was Leiberman's strong candidacy for the VP role.

We're gonna disagree here, Strat. Lieberman was a VP candidate until Rove and the rest of the higher-ups in the party nixed it, so he probably wasn't a strong candidate at all. A true maverick and someone who isn't afraid of pissing off their party would've probably done that. The Republican party probably needs to split anyways. There needs to be a staunch conservative side and a more moderate side. The conservative side would get their tails kicked in any election held in the midwest and the coastal regions, but at least they would quit corrupting good guys gone bad like McCain.

[GatewaySnayke]

I've never seen anything like it. The pick seems very dubious.

I think the pick is a slimey gimmick designed to pick up all the angry Hilary voters. I think they literally sat around a giant mahogany table, smoking cigars and laughing at how great a trick it is to pick a woman and steal away all those votes.

(I'm insulted I guess is what I should say)

And it's not working, because Obama has managed to substantially bump up his number with Hillary Voters.

Clement, you have been on fire in this thread.

[haltz]

For some reason James Dobson absolutely loves Palin. He's someone you want to have on your side if you are a republican candidate. I don't know, I'm still baffled by Palin and the whole decision-making process.

In related news, it's not too late to get your entries in for the Sarah Palin Naked Photoshop Contest.

[Fat Strat]

I heard she returned a Video tape late.....and it wasn't re-wound!

I know you didn't say that this was on the same level as not filing your taxes, but uhh.. I don't understand what your grievance is about all of the things that have come out about her? If John McCain would have actually vetted her first instead of saying "YOUNG HOT LADY VP HILLARY VOTERZ," this crap wouldn't have had to be done by citizen journalists and bloggers.

All of the things that have been revealed have been pretty serious. I could understand your snarkiness if you had a legitimate complaint about triviality of the issues, but these have all been pretty big grievances.

There has been a fair share of triviality mixed in with some of the more serious greivances. From what I've gathered over the last couple days its the already-convinced democrats who have been most concerned with the results of Palin's public vetting.

She's definitely energized the base, despite the fact that her husband might have voted with an independent party a couple decades ago.

[clement]

She's definitely energized the base, despite the fact that her husband might have voted with an independent party a couple decades ago.

I'm afraid she has energized the base of the other side just as much, if not more.

[wart57]

She's definitely energized the base, despite the fact that her husband might have voted with an independent party a couple decades ago.

I'm afraid she has energized the base of the other side just as much, if not more.

She definitely has a lot of people talking!

[Freed Roger]

The dems should have traded Lieberman to the GOP years ago. Wouldn't even need a draft pick or PTBNL.

same as Cards getting rid of these guys -

[obucard]

I heard she returned a Video tape late.....and it wasn't re-wound!

I know you didn't say that this was on the same level as not filing your taxes, but uhh.. I don't understand what your grievance is about all of the things that have come out about her? If John McCain would have actually vetted her first instead of saying "YOUNG HOT LADY VP HILLARY VOTERZ," this crap wouldn't have had to be done by citizen journalists and bloggers.

All of the things that have been revealed have been pretty serious. I could understand your snarkiness if you had a legitimate complaint about triviality of the issues, but these have all been pretty big grievances.

I was trying to lighten the mood a bit.
Bad wart. no snarkiness allowed.
Sorry.

Lightening the mood in this thread requires a ridiculous picture:

[Fat Strat]

I'm not saying all of the above talking points are valid or true or don't have a fair explanation. I am saying that when you have a person that nobody knows anything about and within a week of introducing her to the country you have this many questions being raised, some important, some less so, and we're talking about a pretty bad decision made by McCain.

OK. I was going to pick your list apart, but I won't bother since you tagged your post nicely with this comment.

I find it rather pointless on a forum like this to debate the in's and out's of Palin's former voting record, her hiring of a lobbyist to get federal money (and why that's a bad thing for a mayor to do), etc. etc. If I felt like it would change a lot of minds here, I would, since I have heard good responses and rebuttals for most of those claims, but, really, I'm hoping that we're all smart enough to look into these things ourselves and certainly not take another bloggers opinion for anything.

From a republican standpoint (which is really the standpoint that matters in relation to Palin, since even with a perfectly clean vetting she would not attract democrats and liberals), the attacks seem to be strengthening and codifying the party that was pretty fractured and disillusioned after McCain's nomination. It's not like McCain is a beloved republican. He was far from it. He was a pain in the pacydermian posterior for years. I was out and about today so I listened to Rush some just for entertainment, and I think he might be right in suggesting that all this public vetting will only serve to rile up the base in support of Sarah (his words paraphrased) and it will end up backfiring on the bloggers and dirt diggers... they might just awaken the sleeping giant and get conservatives out to the polls to rally behind and support a candidate that two weeks ago they ignored.

[ghostrunner]

I think the experience issue is a fair argument, and a point of concern. But comparing her to Obama I don't see a deficit there. I don't have any idea how she'll do with Putin, Sarkozy, etc...but i really have no idea how Obama will do either. I agree that people have largely decided that he'll do okay. But I see an attitude that Palin doesn't even deserve that shot, and her selection is automatically laughable or irresponsible. Let her do some interviews and debates and let the public decide.

I guess it's just me, but I see no reason why a person with a mere bachelor's degree is incapable of being President, and I do see some value in having someone there who's actually left college and worked after the one degree, rather than racking up degrees or practicing law. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those things, but I'd argue government is a little too heavy with those types. Palin's path (up until the governorship) is pretty similar to most college graduates, and I think that experience would be valuable.

There's no governor or mayor that doesn't try to get some earmarks or federal funding. Being a spending cutter doesn't mean you forfeit any right or reason to ask for federal funding. The point is to trim fat and excess. It's always up for debate what's excessive, but everything I've read (I linked to an article on this earlier) suggests she's willing to make tough choices in this regard and even tick off people her own local party establishment. That is very much a quality I'd like to see in a President, and one we haven't seen in a while. My guess is she'd probably be tougher than McCain in this respect.