Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[sighyoung]

I dont know if its good or bad but I havent read a single post in this thread.

But your strides toward literacy are commendable, Dill.

[TimeForGuinness]

Since we're now *edit 134* pages in, I feel comfortable enough to make a post. I don't post here NEARLY as often as I probably should, but I come here as a visitor at least once a day, just to read all the differing opinions. It's good to have this forum of mostly anonymous voices so that people can let their true emotions fly, so it definitely makes for an interesting read.

That said, I am happy that we have educated, aware people (like Jim) that don't look at things at just black and white, however politicians like Palin tend to get to me because of their polarizing stances. I would hope that most people don't really care what others in the county/city/state/country/world do because they realize that it doesn't affect their lives. But what really gets me is when people try to make these issues (and subsequent opinions) seem like they affect everyone and make laws and constitutional amendments. Like abortion, if you're against abortion and want to stand in front of a clinic and state that opinion, you should, and I'm glad we live in a country where you can. But don't start telling me and my neighbors that we should not have abortions unless you personally are ready to take custody of the millions of unwanted children currently in the system. If you want to say that 1 person can't marry another person because of something so irrelevant as their gender, then you shouldn't be upset if you have to ask for permission from me (because I can claim I'm a self-appointed authority on what relationships do and do not preserve the "sanctity of marriage") on if your proposed-spouse is acceptable because they might have too many freckles or whatever.... If you want to teach your children stories from your particular religious book, that's fine, it doesn't affect me, and if you want that covered in a THEOLOGY class, that's great. But non-scientific parents shouldn't be trying to dictate to educators what should be included in SCIENCE classes! That would be like me insisting that 2+2=5 and that it needs to be included in all math classes to "give all sides".

You believe and live your life the way that you believe, I let you, so let me believe and live the way I want to. What's up with making laws and policies limiting life choices?

Just had to get my thoughts out there. I'll post again in a couple months when another god thread gets up here.

Great post.

...but 2+2=5 is possible...depending on some abstract algebra

[lukethedrifter]

The withdrawal talk seems premature. The only reason I can see her being withdrawn is her experience, and there she has no great disadvantage compared with Obama.

I have a hard time thinking that you actually believe this. Honestly. I hold your intelligence in high regard and either I'm really missing something here or you are.

On everything else she's a conservative. It shouldn't be that shocking that she favors teaching abstinence or wants creationism included in curriculum. I find neither of those things particularly bothersome in a vice-president or president. It's not what I'd prefer, but the important decisions in those areas are made locally and not something Presidents typically have time to bother with.

Fair enough but I really am not comfortable with a 6k Year Old Earther as VP. Though local decisions the Administration can certainly influence and promote policy change.

I guess the trooper thing is perhaps an issue, but even first reading about it I didn't find it that big of a deal. The trooper in question should have been fired from what I've read. And I don't see how it can be proven that she fired the guy over this incident. Either way, even the best politicians pull strings and use their influence and this one doesn't seem that egregious.

Unfortunately, I agree.

[wart57]

Since we're now *edit 134* pages in, I feel comfortable enough to make a post. I don't post here NEARLY as often as I probably should, but I come here as a visitor at least once a day, just to read all the differing opinions. It's good to have this forum of mostly anonymous voices so that people can let their true emotions fly, so it definitely makes for an interesting read.

That said, I am happy that we have educated, aware people (like Jim) that don't look at things at just black and white, however politicians like Palin tend to get to me because of their polarizing stances. I would hope that most people don't really care what others in the county/city/state/country/world do because they realize that it doesn't affect their lives. But what really gets me is when people try to make these issues (and subsequent opinions) seem like they affect everyone and make laws and constitutional amendments. Like abortion, if you're against abortion and want to stand in front of a clinic and state that opinion, you should, and I'm glad we live in a country where you can. But don't start telling me and my neighbors that we should not have abortions unless you personally are ready to take custody of the millions of unwanted children currently in the system. If you want to say that 1 person can't marry another person because of something so irrelevant as their gender, then you shouldn't be upset if you have to ask for permission from me (because I can claim I'm a self-appointed authority on what relationships do and do not preserve the "sanctity of marriage") on if your proposed-spouse is acceptable because they might have too many freckles or whatever.... If you want to teach your children stories from your particular religious book, that's fine, it doesn't affect me, and if you want that covered in a THEOLOGY class, that's great. But non-scientific parents shouldn't be trying to dictate to educators what should be included in SCIENCE classes! That would be like me insisting that 2+2=5 and that it needs to be included in all math classes to "give all sides".

You believe and live your life the way that you believe, I let you, so let me believe and live the way I want to. What's up with making laws and policies limiting life choices?

Just had to get my thoughts out there. I'll post again in a couple months when another god thread gets up here.

My problem is that the baby does not get a choice. We love to talk about freedom to choose, but that unborn life gets no choice in the matter.
My family has done their part, I have 6 adopted siblings, and if my wife and I can not have any more kids of our own I hope to adopt. If people would stop having fits about gay marriage, and allow gay and lesbian couples to get married, and take away some of the things that blocking gay and lesbian couples from adopting, I think a lot of these unwanted children would have loving homes to grow up in, but unfortunately a lot of the same folks that don't want abortions also don't want gays and lesbians to marry.

[Popeye_Card]

The withdrawal talk seems premature. The only reason I can see her being withdrawn is her experience, and there she has no great disadvantage compared with Obama. On everything else she's a conservative. It shouldn't be that shocking that she favors teaching abstinence or wants creationism included in curriculum. I find neither of those things particularly bothersome in a vice-president or president. It's not what I'd prefer, but the important decisions in those areas are made locally and not something Presidents typically have time to bother with.

I guess the trooper thing is perhaps an issue, but even first reading about it I didn't find it that big of a deal. The trooper in question should have been fired from what I've read. And I don't see how it can be proven that she fired the guy over this incident. Either way, even the best politicians pull strings and use their influence and this one doesn't seem that egregious.

What happens if all-of-the-sudden McCain starts dropping like a rock in polls, specifically in swing states? Might a convenient excuse for her to drop out come up?

On the experience thing, it's subtle, but there's a big difference. Obama has been preparing to be President of the United States for at least a couple of years now. Probably back to 2004, and possibly even before then. Now I don't know Palin very well, but I'm not sure if it was ever in her political goals to be President. I know we aren't electing her to be President, but we are electing her to be "one heartbeat away". I don't know about you, but I feel comfortable with someone of Obama's experience if he's been carefully looking into policies, procedures, etc. preparing him to become President. I don't get the sense that Palin has been doing that. And I don't feel like "cramming for the exam" over the next couple of months is the same thing either.

[Socnorb11]

The withdrawal talk seems premature. The only reason I can see her being withdrawn is her experience, and there she has no great disadvantage compared with Obama. On everything else she's a conservative. It shouldn't be that shocking that she favors teaching abstinence or wants creationism included in curriculum. I find neither of those things particularly bothersome in a vice-president or president. It's not what I'd prefer, but the important decisions in those areas are made locally and not something Presidents typically have time to bother with.

I guess the trooper thing is perhaps an issue, but even first reading about it I didn't find it that big of a deal. The trooper in question should have been fired from what I've read. And I don't see how it can be proven that she fired the guy over this incident. Either way, even the best politicians pull strings and use their influence and this one doesn't seem that egregious.

What happens if all-of-the-sudden McCain starts dropping like a rock in polls, specifically in swing states? Might a convenient excuse for her to drop out come up?

On the experience thing, it's subtle, but there's a big difference. Obama has been preparing to be President of the United States for at least a couple of years now. Probably back to 2004, and possibly even before then. Now I don't know Palin very well, but I'm not sure if it was ever in her political goals to be President. I know we aren't electing her to be President, but we are electing her to be "one heartbeat away". I don't know about you, but I feel comfortable with someone of Obama's experience if he's been carefully looking into policies, procedures, etc. preparing him to become President. I don't get the sense that Palin has been doing that. And I don't feel like "cramming for the exam" over the next couple of months is the same thing either.

I agree.

The voters have spoken, and declared Obama to be "experienced enough" to be a candidate.

Palin received one vote, it just happened to be McCain's.

[GatewaySnayke]

Palin is getting crushed by the media. The pregnancy thing is funny, but doesn't have any consequence to me because it's just another Republican hypocrite. And well, politicians are all hypocrites to some degree.

But the Troopergate thing is interesting because, as DailyKos pointed out, she's citing "executive privilege" on e-mails and not letting them be released.

Barack Obama and his campaign haven't even lifted a finger and the Palin thing is unraveling. The media is right to pounce all over the fact that she was picked because the Republicans said "absolutely not" to Ridge or Lieberman (see the NYT).

I'm just glad to see the Palin pick blow up in Maverick's face. He did it to counter Obama's speech and it has failed miserably. The only thing I have heard about Obama since Friday is that he told his volunteers to start helping out with Gustav.

[Michael]

I doubt the voters really care about the VP experience issue. It's not uncommon for a presidential candidate to pick a fresh up and coming politician. On the other hand, the possible lack of vetting and cynical reasons for the pick are upsetting.

[Radbird]

Palin received one vote, it just happened to be McCain's.

Was it McCain's or was it James Dobson's?

[sighyoung]

I doubt the voters really care about the VP experience issue. It's not uncommon for a presidential candidate to pick a fresh up and coming politician. On the other hand, the possible lack of vetting and cynical reasons for the pick are upsetting.

Now reporters and bloggers and trying to trace her connections to the Alaskan Independence Party and the American Constitution Party.