Our financial system is crumbling this week.

[Arthur Dent]

So I think I'm going to stick to what I have now and claim the interest on my taxes.

Why does the tax deduction make any difference? You'd get that on the new rate too. I'm not sure the tax deduction is as big a deal as people think anyway. It just lowers your effective interest rate a bit, but it also means you can't take the standard deduction, and that takes a lot of the gain away.

[Arthur Dent]

Does anybody understand the details of ETFs? They're supposed to track a market index, but as far as I can tell, dividends are totally excluded from that calculation. As a result, two supposedly identical S&P 500 ETFs (IVV and SPY) have equivalent values, but SPY seems to pay like twice the dividend. What am I missing here?

[TimeForGuinness]

So I think I'm going to stick to what I have now and claim the interest on my taxes.

Why does the tax deduction make any difference? You'd get that on the new rate too. I'm not sure the tax deduction is as big a deal as people think anyway. It just lowers your effective interest rate a bit, but it also means you can't take the standard deduction, and that takes a lot of the gain away.

I left a lot out.

When talking recently with a bank, if I didn't have 20% paid on the original loan, I'd have to pay PMI...especially since I'm on year 3 of my house. Plus, they'd only loan me 95% of the value of the house, so I might have to come up with some more cash if the value of my house wasn't high enough...so really it ended up costing me a lot more than the trouble of moving in 5 years. I haven't shopped around just yet, I'm waiting to see what's going to happen in a few months.

It would be easier and faster to just pay off my 15% note at 8.25 to get my payments down if I was that worried about it...which I could do, but I'd rather invest that money now while the market is down...which I'm doing.

If I can find a low rate and the cost/benefit is in my corner (with respect to moving in 3-5 years) then I'll do it.

[Jocephus]

UNEMPLOYMENT REPORT: Rate Jumps To 7.2%, 524,000 Jobs Axed

WASHINGTON — The nation's unemployment rate bolted to 7.2 percent in December, the highest level in 16 years, as nervous employers slashed 524,000 jobs, capping one of the worst years in modern history for American workers.

The Labor Department's report, released Friday, underscored the grim toll the deepening recession is having on workers and companies. And it highlights the difficulty President-elect Barack Obama faces in resuscitating the flat-lined economy. This year has gotten off to a rough start with a flurry of big corporate layoffs, pointing to another year of hefty job reductions.

For all of 2008, the economy lost a net total of 2.6 million jobs. That was the most since 1945, when nearly 2.8 million jobs were lost. Though the U.S. labor force has more than tripled since then, losses of this magnitude are still being painfully felt.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/0 ... 56512.html

[Freed Roger]

UNEMPLOYMENT REPORT: Rate Jumps To 7.2%, 524,000 Jobs Axed

WASHINGTON — The nation's unemployment rate bolted to 7.2 percent in December, the highest level in 16 years, as nervous employers slashed 524,000 jobs, capping one of the worst years in modern history for American workers.

The Labor Department's report, released Friday, underscored the grim toll the deepening recession is having on workers and companies. And it highlights the difficulty President-elect Barack Obama faces in resuscitating the flat-lined economy. This year has gotten off to a rough start with a flurry of big corporate layoffs, pointing to another year of hefty job reductions.

For all of 2008, the economy lost a net total of 2.6 million jobs. That was the most since 1945, when nearly 2.8 million jobs were lost. Though the U.S. labor force has more than tripled since then, losses of this magnitude are still being painfully felt.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/0 ... 56512.html

It keeps hitting don't it?. When you're not personally affected, other than a lower # on your 401K statement, its easy to insulate yourself from the problems - but it seems things are swirling closer around to where everybody is affected some way or another. I know several people who's business are heading towards the brink.

Wasn't it just 4 or 5 months ago Oreilly and Limbaugh were just blaming it all on the negativity of the media? My father-in law was echoing their nonsense to me for a while, and all I could do was shake my head. What freakin clowns those guys are. No we aren't building new Hoovervilles - or TrickleDownTowns by the river, but US is downsizing. Not all such a bad thing -it makes sense to live more reasonable lives that aren't driven by mindless debt-laden consumption.

Do you know people losing jobs, homes, or making major changes such as moving their kids from private school to public. What are you guys seeing out there?

[Jocephus]

it hits me in the sense that...i got my current job (full-time, state position) the last week of october...plus the fact that 155 people applied for this position, and they interviewed only 5...i just feel extremely lucky...and im still in my "probationary" stage, so im a bit nervous...though, personally, i feel im doing a great job and am not in danger

then i think of my uncle, a mid-40's guy who was in business (not sure exactly), was laid off last year and has been applying and applying and not gettin gmuch luck...he worked as an airport "ground guy" for about 6 months early in 08...then was out of work for many months...he did just recently get a temporary job with the IRS, but still...

definitely scary times

[TabascoElvis]

Do you know people losing jobs, homes, or making major changes such as moving their kids from private school to public. What are you guys seeing out there?

Good friend of mine is a techie for a company his family owned for 40+ years. His dad sold it to a bigger concern a year or 2 ago to retire; my buddy's a techie remember, not on the "business" side. At New Years he told me that there was talk of 45 layoffs coming but he felt pretty secure. Last Sunday his family got home from a trip to Chicago. His cell phone rang. HR called him in Sunday night to clean out his desk. He's got 9 wks severance and is [expletive] bricks.

My company asked for voluntary separations and got 389 applications that they accepted and then involuntarily separated another 110 salaried employees. At least for us the volunteers got 3 weeks severance per year employment and the involuntary got 2 weeks per. Our manufacturing folks will be in the sights this month, expecting at least a couple of hundred there.

Local radio station yesterday was talking about one of the moving companies (maybe Allied) having reported that, nationwide, of all of their moves of families moving out of a state, 2/3 of those moves were families moving out of Michigan.

[Arthur Dent]

Eww. That is an ugly jobs report.

[Gashouse]

Do you know people losing jobs, homes, or making major changes such as moving their kids from private school to public. What are you guys seeing out there?

My neighbor lost his job sometime in the middle of last year and is still looking, but my wife and I have suspicions that it wasn't necessarily economy related.

A co-worker's bf's company may go under, but that is only partially economy-related. They have been running on venture capital, and it's been time to show some results for a couple of years.

Otherwise, I can't think of anyone else I know (or at least in regular contact with) who has been drastically affected. Some people are slow at work, but no one has lost a job. I wouldn't be surprised if I noticed more impact if I took some time to look around me, but I've been too busy with work and family to have the chance to take a step back. I'll have to see how many new panhandlers there are at stoplights as the weather gets warmer.

[Gashouse]

Does anybody understand the details of ETFs? They're supposed to track a market index, but as far as I can tell, dividends are totally excluded from that calculation. As a result, two supposedly identical S&P 500 ETFs (IVV and SPY) have equivalent values, but SPY seems to pay like twice the dividend. What am I missing here?

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=spy

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=ivv

The yields are pretty much identical. Why do you think SPY pays twice the dividend?