Cardinals: lack of focus and/or desire?

[dangerous]

That belief does not make it so.

What that mysterious poster was getting at, (my opinion since I can't know what I meant with certainty) was that it is fruitless for fans to argue about their beliefs, whether they believe in intuition or statistics. That is like arguing about religion, which baseball is to some people. It is also not productive to try to control what others may perceive or think since it is based on their beliefs.

[dangerous]

It's hard to get, and especially keep, a Major League job without work-ethic or with psychological problems that limit play. We've strayed from the original topic though which was desire/focus.

But wouldn't a focused player who desired to get better work on his weaknesses?

[haltz]

It's hard to get, and especially keep, a Major League job without work-ethic or with psychological problems that limit play. We've strayed from the original topic though which was desire/focus.

But wouldn't a focused player who desired to get better work on his weaknesses?

Sure.

[dangerous]

It's hard to get, and especially keep, a Major League job without work-ethic or with psychological problems that limit play. We've strayed from the original topic though which was desire/focus.

But wouldn't a focused player who desired to get better work on his weaknesses?

Sure.

haltz, I appreciate your answering. I don't get how the statistics faction discounts the effect of emotional factors if a player's emotions could make him work to improve.

[skmsw]

In the event that you are placing me in the "statistics faction," I don't discount the impact of emotional factors. I discount our ability to differentiate which players are performing as they are due to physical, verses random, verses situational, verses emotional factors.

Meanwhile, I don't get how the "follow certain posters around the forum to take indirect shots at how one dimensional they are" faction can take it so personally when their own beliefs and perspective come up in conversation, within context, and get discussed directly.

[haltz]

It's hard to get, and especially keep, a Major League job without work-ethic or with psychological problems that limit play. We've strayed from the original topic though which was desire/focus.

But wouldn't a focused player who desired to get better work on his weaknesses?

Sure.

haltz, I appreciate your answering. I don't get how the statistics faction discounts the effect of emotional factors if a player's emotions could make him work to improve.

These are generalizations that 1) don't apply to a run of 4-5 games, and 2) don't apply to an entire team as a unit. E.g., I think that Duncan's defense has improved since last year, one of the factors involved is likely that he has worked on that aspect of his game, but was he "not trying" when he looked awful out there last year? I don't think so.

[dangerous]

In the event that you are placing me in the "statistics faction," I don't discount the impact of emotional factors. I discount our ability to differentiate which players are performing as they are due to physical, verses random, verses situational, verses emotional factors.

Meanwhile, I don't get how the "follow certain posters around the forum to take indirect shots at how one dimensional they are" faction can take it so personally when their own beliefs and perspective come up in conversation, within context, and get discussed directly.

I can't answer that many embedded assumptions. But I hold no ill will toward you or anyone else here.

[greenback44]

It's hard to get, and especially keep, a Major League job without work-ethic or with psychological problems that limit play. We've strayed from the original topic though which was desire/focus.

But wouldn't a focused player who desired to get better work on his weaknesses?

Sure.

haltz, I appreciate your answering. I don't get how the statistics faction discounts the effect of emotional factors if a player's emotions could make him work to improve.

These are generalizations that 1) don't apply to a run of 4-5 games, and 2) don't apply to an entire team as a unit. E.g., I think that Duncan's defense has improved since last year, one of the factors involved is likely that he has worked on that aspect of his game, but was he "not trying" when he looked awful out there last year? I don't think so.

His improvement at the plate and in the field does make me wonder if he took the minors seriously. Prince Harry Syndrome (the Shakespeaere one), I suppose.

[maddash]

That belief does not make it so.

What that mysterious poster was getting at, (my opinion since I can't know what I meant with certainty) was that it is fruitless for fans to argue about their beliefs, whether they believe in intuition or statistics. That is like arguing about religion, which baseball is to some people. It is also not productive to try to control what others may perceive or think since it is based on their beliefs.

What if those beliefs are unfair? We talk about things we can infer about a person's character from what we see on tv... what about that fat guy I see eating at McDonalds? Can I infer that he's lazy simply by watching him for a few hours a day over a few days? He's fat, a lot of people think fat people are lazy, is it that far fetched for me (using my insight) to determine that the guy must be lazy? I suppose it's a reasonable conclusion, and I suppose I'm allowed to have that belief... but it's a patently unfair one. There's no way I can determine a person's desire or focus to remain thin just by watching him - I can most certainly have that belief, but it's an unfair one, and one that should be avoided.

And I completely understand Dan when he says he's not trying to disparage a player's character, but honestly, how else would a player take it if you said to them "I don't think you have the same desire/focus as you did a year ago". What other conclusion is the player to draw other than that you're talking about his character? Unless we see players not hustling or flat out slacking, it's probably better not to question their "fire". It's unfair to them.

[dangerous]

That belief does not make it so.

What that mysterious poster was getting at, (my opinion since I can't know what I meant with certainty) was that it is fruitless for fans to argue about their beliefs, whether they believe in intuition or statistics. That is like arguing about religion, which baseball is to some people. It is also not productive to try to control what others may perceive or think since it is based on their beliefs.

What if those beliefs are unfair? We talk about things we can infer about a person's character from what we see on tv... what about that fat guy I see eating at McDonalds? Can I infer that he's lazy simply by watching him for a few hours a day over a few days? He's fat, a lot of people think fat people are lazy, is it that far fetched for me (using my insight) to determine that the guy must be lazy? I suppose it's a reasonable conclusion, and I suppose I'm allowed to have that belief... but it's a patently unfair one. There's no way I can determine a person's desire or focus to remain thin just by watching him - I can most certainly have that belief, but it's an unfair one, and one that should be avoided.

And I completely understand Dan when he says he's not trying to disparage a player's character, but honestly, how else would a player take it if you said to them "I don't think you have the same desire/focus as you did a year ago". What other conclusion is the player to draw other than that you're talking about his character? Unless we see players not hustling or flat out slacking, it's probably better not to question their "fire". It's unfair to them.

Before the season I thought to myself it would be unlikely for the Cardinals to repeat as champions (not exactly sticking my neck out). How they would falter remains to be seen- Walt not recruiting enough talent,
Tony having an off year, the players having less time in the off season to rest or prepare, not being hungry enough, injuries, etc. It's natural for a fan to think of those things so why is it an affront to write it here? If a player has contracts guaranteeing a large sum of money, wouldn't it be human nature to coast sometimes? I agree it is unfair to assume things about strangers based on their appearance, eg overweight people.