Kinney's Elbow More Than Barking

[jagtrader]

Kinney is one of my all-time favorite Cardinals stories. He came from Coudersport, Pa. If you've ever been there, you know how unlikely it is that a big-leaguer could come from that town. He was an undrafted indy leaguer. Despite those less-than-favorable odds, he made it.

I hope he makes it back someday.

[TheoSqua]

Kinney is one of my all-time favorite Cardinals stories. He came from Coudersport, Pa. If you've ever been there, you know how unlikely it is that a big-leaguer could come from that town. He was an undrafted indy leaguer. Despite those less-than-favorable odds, he made it.

I hope he makes it back someday.

Yeah even if he never throws another pitch in the majors, he still has that World Series ring, and he did his part to earn it too.

[Leroy]

Kinney is one of my all-time favorite Cardinals stories. He came from Coudersport, Pa. If you've ever been there, you know how unlikely it is that a big-leaguer could come from that town. He was an undrafted indy leaguer. Despite those less-than-favorable odds, he made it.

I hope he makes it back someday.

Yeah even if he never throws another pitch in the majors, he still has that World Series ring, and he did his part to earn it too.

Yeah, I'd take that.

[jim]

Carp had 2 TJ's? Don't believe so. That would have meant that he missed essentially 2 full seasons. He's only missed one (2003), and that was due to his shoulder problems.

According to Wikepedia, Carp has never had TJ:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:P ... hn_surgery

This list is not exhaustive, but I think Carp would be on it if he had the procedure.

Bad source, I knew he had one but when I googled it I found an article that said he had one in 2000.

http://www.sportscolumn.com/story/2006/8/21/224021/716

There is an article in the Hardball Times this year discussing TJ, and Carpenter was listed as having one of the most dramatic changes in stats pre/post TJ.

[greenback44]

Yeah even if he never throws another pitch in the majors, he still has that World Series ring, and he did his part to earn it too.

As I understand it, the injury also guarantees he'll be earning close to $400,000 in 2007. That's some consolation, I'd guess.

[haltz]

http://www.sportscolumn.com/story/2006/8/21/224021/716

That article is wrong, it was labrum surgery, not his UCL. I am not as sure about the surgery he had in 2000, but I believe it wasn't TJ either. Like I said upthread, I'm pretty sure it was a bone spur in his elbow. I'll try and find a few links that are reputable.

EDIT: here's a Will Carroll snippet from 6/21/2003:

The St. Louis Post-Dispatch had the news first that Chris Carpenter would be meeting with Cardinals team officials. He's coming back from labrum surgery, so a setback--even a reinjury--isn't something that should be terribly surprising.

And another from him:

SP Chris Carpenter: The Cards don't think Carpenter's injury was nearly as bad as the similar one that Brad Penny suffered. If the World Series were a week later, Carpenter might have pitched, though it wouldn't have changed destiny, would it have, Red Sox Nation? Don't expect a repeat of last season, on innings alone. Labrum survivors seem to have a wall they can't bust through.

From Marc Normandin's player profile:

The following 1999 season would have been Carpenter's first full year in the rotation, if not for season-ending elbow surgery to remove a bone spur, an operation performed courtesy of Dr. James Andrews.

[Hungary Jack]

Carp had 2 TJ's? Don't believe so. That would have meant that he missed essentially 2 full seasons. He's only missed one (2003), and that was due to his shoulder problems.

According to Wikepedia, Carp has never had TJ:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:P ... hn_surgery

This list is not exhaustive, but I think Carp would be on it if he had the procedure.

Bad source, I knew he had one but when I googled it I found an article that said he had one in 2000.

http://www.sportscolumn.com/story/2006/8/21/224021/716

There is an article in the Hardball Times this year discussing TJ, and Carpenter was listed as having one of the most dramatic changes in stats pre/post TJ.

The linked article is incorrect. It states that he had TJ in 2003 when in fact that is when he had his labrum stapled and then restapled before returning to the bigs as a Cardinal in 2004.

CHRIS CARPENTER- Carpenter logged a total of 870 2/3 innings with the Blue Jays, including 2002, a year in which he missed ample time due to various ailments. Later that year, he would undergo Tommy John Surgery and miss the entire 2003 campaign. When he became a free agent, he chose to sign with St. Louis. His career ERA with Toronto was a bloated 4.83. In 2-plus years with St. Louis, Carpenter has a Cy Young Award under his belt, along with a 3.10 career ERA as a Cardinal

Another article mentions elbow surgery at the end of 1999, but not specifically TJ. If Carp had TJ in late 1999, he would not have pitched in 2000 because the recovery time is typically 12 months for pitchers.

[jim]

I know he had labryum surgery, and quite honestly didn't think he had TJ, but the Hardball Times in their annual book lists him as having it. After reading that I assumed he had both done at the same time.

[Hungary Jack]

I know he had labryum surgery, and quite honestly didn't think he had TJ, but the Hardball Times in their annual book lists him as having it. After reading that I assumed he had both done at the same time.

I think THT has it down wrong. He had the elbow problems before the shoulder problems (sound like Kerry Wood?), but he would have missed an entire season had he had TJ when he had his elbow surgery after the season.