Transmogrified Tiger wrote:Who do you put in front of him? He's had quite a string of success with significantly fewer resources than most of his playoff competition. I don't think there's much a GM can do to win the world series outside getting the best possible team and hoping that they can get through the short serieseseses(serii?) that make up the playoffs.
Gillick and Schuerholz. In fact, Schuerholz is the unquestioned #1 in my mind. And yes, he's only won one in Atlanta.... but also has won one in Kansas City. Both have long track records of building winners. Beane might get there some day but he's not there yet.
I might put Jocketty ahead of Beane as well, though I think it's kind of a push with them.
I think Beane is #1 because of how innovative and influential he's been. Schuerholz is a fine pick through.
I'll take Schuerholz over Beane because he's won more ways.
He's built the team through trades. He's built the team through the farm system (a couple of times). He's won when Ted Turner was spending money like it grew on trees. He's won when AOL Time Warner drastically cut the budget.
ToughGuy_BlueShirt wrote:I agree, especially with Schuerholz, yeah he only won one in Atlanta..that's one more than Beane.
That's some awful logic. Schuerholz has 1 title in 17 years as the Braves GM, Beane has only been around for 10 in Oakland. Never mind that Schuerholz doesn't have to compete with teams that can and do spend twice or three times as much as he's able to. Or the fact that WS titles aren't a very good barometer of a GM.
I can understand preferring someone like Schuerholz because he's got a longer track record. But to me the potential to do more with the gaps in their tenures is why I prefer Beane.
He does now, with the Mets breaking the bank every year.
ToughGuy_BlueShirt wrote:I agree, especially with Schuerholz, yeah he only won one in Atlanta..that's one more than Beane.
That's some awful logic. Schuerholz has 1 title in 17 years as the Braves GM, Beane has only been around for 10 in Oakland. Never mind that Schuerholz doesn't have to compete with teams that can and do spend twice or three times as much as he's able to. Or the fact that WS titles aren't a very good barometer of a GM.
I can understand preferring someone like Schuerholz because he's got a longer track record. But to me the potential to do more with the gaps in their tenures is why I prefer Beane.
He does now, with the Mets breaking the bank every year.
Not even close. Beane has hovered around a 60 million dollar payroll while Boston pushes 120 million and the Yankees are pushing 200 million. Schuerholz and the Braves have been hovering around 90 million while the Mets have been around 100 million. The Braves outspent the Mets as recently as 2000, and the gap hasn't been all that great since, certainly not on the same scale as someone like Beane or Ryan or Shapiro trying to compete with Cashman and Epstein.
ToughGuy_BlueShirt wrote:I agree, especially with Schuerholz, yeah he only won one in Atlanta..that's one more than Beane.
That's some awful logic. Schuerholz has 1 title in 17 years as the Braves GM, Beane has only been around for 10 in Oakland. Never mind that Schuerholz doesn't have to compete with teams that can and do spend twice or three times as much as he's able to. Or the fact that WS titles aren't a very good barometer of a GM.
I can understand preferring someone like Schuerholz because he's got a longer track record. But to me the potential to do more with the gaps in their tenures is why I prefer Beane.
He does now, with the Mets breaking the bank every year.
Not even close. Beane has hovered around a 60 million dollar payroll while Boston pushes 120 million and the Yankees are pushing 200 million. Schuerholz and the Braves have been hovering around 90 million while the Mets have been around 100 million. The Braves outspent the Mets as recently as 2000, and the gap hasn't been all that great since, certainly not on the same scale as someone like Beane or Ryan or Shapiro trying to compete with Cashman and Epstein.
ToughGuy_BlueShirt wrote:I agree, especially with Schuerholz, yeah he only won one in Atlanta..that's one more than Beane.
That's some awful logic. Schuerholz has 1 title in 17 years as the Braves GM, Beane has only been around for 10 in Oakland. Never mind that Schuerholz doesn't have to compete with teams that can and do spend twice or three times as much as he's able to. Or the fact that WS titles aren't a very good barometer of a GM.
I can understand preferring someone like Schuerholz because he's got a longer track record. But to me the potential to do more with the gaps in their tenures is why I prefer Beane.
He does now, with the Mets breaking the bank every year.
Not even close. Beane has hovered around a 60 million dollar payroll while Boston pushes 120 million and the Yankees are pushing 200 million. Schuerholz and the Braves have been hovering around 90 million while the Mets have been around 100 million. The Braves outspent the Mets as recently as 2000, and the gap hasn't been all that great since, certainly not on the same scale as someone like Beane or Ryan or Shapiro trying to compete with Cashman and Epstein.
When did A's moved to AL East?
Obviously we're comparing him to the other GM's in the entire league, and not just the division. Otherwise there wouldn't be comparisons about WS titles. Follow the context of the thread.
ToughGuy_BlueShirt wrote:I agree, especially with Schuerholz, yeah he only won one in Atlanta..that's one more than Beane.
That's some awful logic. Schuerholz has 1 title in 17 years as the Braves GM, Beane has only been around for 10 in Oakland. Never mind that Schuerholz doesn't have to compete with teams that can and do spend twice or three times as much as he's able to. Or the fact that WS titles aren't a very good barometer of a GM.
I can understand preferring someone like Schuerholz because he's got a longer track record. But to me the potential to do more with the gaps in their tenures is why I prefer Beane.
He does now, with the Mets breaking the bank every year.
Not even close. Beane has hovered around a 60 million dollar payroll while Boston pushes 120 million and the Yankees are pushing 200 million. Schuerholz and the Braves have been hovering around 90 million while the Mets have been around 100 million. The Braves outspent the Mets as recently as 2000, and the gap hasn't been all that great since, certainly not on the same scale as someone like Beane or Ryan or Shapiro trying to compete with Cashman and Epstein.
When did A's moved to AL East?
Obviously we're comparing him to the other GM's in the entire league, and not just the division. Otherwise there wouldn't be comparisons about WS titles. Follow the context of the thread.
How much credit do you give to Schuerholz for keeping the dominant pitching together for so many years? To me, the credit for this could be given just as much to Bobby Cox as it could to him. It's a known fact that players love to play for this guy. To me, he had a lot to do with keeping those teams assembled, just as much as Schuerholz IMO.
JDE wrote:
How much credit do you give to Schuerholz for keeping the dominant pitching together for so many years? To me, the credit for this could be given just as much to Bobby Cox as it could to him. It's a known fact that players love to play for this guy. To me, he had a lot to do with keeping those teams assembled, just as much as Schuerholz IMO.
It's about knowing which players to build your core around and which not to. GM's should also get credit for the player development and coaching team they put together.
ToughGuy_BlueShirt wrote:I agree, especially with Schuerholz, yeah he only won one in Atlanta..that's one more than Beane.
That's some awful logic. Schuerholz has 1 title in 17 years as the Braves GM, Beane has only been around for 10 in Oakland. Never mind that Schuerholz doesn't have to compete with teams that can and do spend twice or three times as much as he's able to. Or the fact that WS titles aren't a very good barometer of a GM.
I can understand preferring someone like Schuerholz because he's got a longer track record. But to me the potential to do more with the gaps in their tenures is why I prefer Beane.
He does now, with the Mets breaking the bank every year.
Not even close. Beane has hovered around a 60 million dollar payroll while Boston pushes 120 million and the Yankees are pushing 200 million. Schuerholz and the Braves have been hovering around 90 million while the Mets have been around 100 million. The Braves outspent the Mets as recently as 2000, and the gap hasn't been all that great since, certainly not on the same scale as someone like Beane or Ryan or Shapiro trying to compete with Cashman and Epstein.
When did A's moved to AL East?
Obviously we're comparing him to the other GM's in the entire league, and not just the division. Otherwise there wouldn't be comparisons about WS titles. Follow the context of the thread.
How much credit do you give to Schuerholz for keeping the dominant pitching together for so many years? To me, the credit for this could be given just as much to Bobby Cox as it could to him. It's a known fact that players love to play for this guy. To me, he had a lot to do with keeping those teams assembled, just as much as Schuerholz IMO.
It's definitely a huge advantage to have Cox around, and a huge feather in Schuerholz's cap for bringing him back to the organization and keeping him around. As far as comparing that to Beane getting rid of Hudson/Mulder/Zito, I've got to give credit to ownership/the almighty dollar. The Braves have been in the Top 10 in total payroll for almost the entirety of Schuerholz's tenure, and were in the Top 3 in payroll for about half of it. That's a large discrepancy from Beane, who has never been in the Top half of the league, and has been in the Bottom 5 in payroll for about half his tenure.
ToughGuy_BlueShirt wrote:I agree, especially with Schuerholz, yeah he only won one in Atlanta..that's one more than Beane.
That's some awful logic. Schuerholz has 1 title in 17 years as the Braves GM, Beane has only been around for 10 in Oakland. Never mind that Schuerholz doesn't have to compete with teams that can and do spend twice or three times as much as he's able to. Or the fact that WS titles aren't a very good barometer of a GM.
I can understand preferring someone like Schuerholz because he's got a longer track record. But to me the potential to do more with the gaps in their tenures is why I prefer Beane.
So, it's ok that I said Beinfest also? He won a World Series in his first four years, and definitely doesn't have the resources as some.
ToughGuy_BlueShirt wrote:I agree, especially with Schuerholz, yeah he only won one in Atlanta..that's one more than Beane.
That's some awful logic. Schuerholz has 1 title in 17 years as the Braves GM, Beane has only been around for 10 in Oakland. Never mind that Schuerholz doesn't have to compete with teams that can and do spend twice or three times as much as he's able to. Or the fact that WS titles aren't a very good barometer of a GM.
I can understand preferring someone like Schuerholz because he's got a longer track record. But to me the potential to do more with the gaps in their tenures is why I prefer Beane.
So, it's ok that I said Beinfest also? He won a World Series in his first four years, and definitely doesn't have the resources as some.
You didn't specify Beinfest, and no he doesn't have the most resources. He also hasn't been back to the playoffs or finished above 3rd in his division since the fluke run in '03. He's not in the same league as Beane.
