Also, I did hear Eric Topol say that nasal spray vaccines are needed, playing whack a mole with vaccines against specific variants is destined to fail as it mutates too quickly (paraphrasing). And, a nasal spray vaccine that is all encompassing and prevents infection instead of limits symptoms shoujld be developed. He also said there is no push to get this done (I think).
I’m super skeptical about this stuff. Nasal vaccines are in principle a good idea as they could induce a faster immune response in the part of the body where you get infected, but natural infection does the same thing, and that hasn’t stopped transmission. The rate of mutation and ease of transmission through simply breathing near somebody makes this unstoppable.
Same thing with the hypothetical universal vaccines. As I understand it, these vaccines would use a viral component that is strongly conserved among variants/types, but if that worked to end transmission natural infection would also do so, as it gives the immune system a look at those conserved components, right?
Anyway, not that I have any real expertise on vaccine technology, but I am not getting my hopes up and think marginal improvements are probably the most we can hope for.
Everything you mention was the prevailing thought years ago when covid started. I have no idea how nasal vaccines work and only read a very small about them years ago, so...take it fwiw.
But, I do remember they had a distinct advantage once you got into the molecular level stuff. Not sure how they differ from a natural infection, but iirc they did better or better put they have the potential to do so.
I've never understood the universal vaccine stuff. Everything from the theory to the testing seems to defy logic. But, Topol's a smart guy. If he thinks it should be a priority and can be done, who am I to argue.
To me, remembering the things we knew before Covid started has been an excellent guide to tempering the wild enthusiasms that developed in the face of the emergency.
But sure, we should definitely try some of this stuff as COVID still causes lots of harm, but the chances that it will have a dramatic impact are, I think, pretty remote.
Seems like that first one is more of a correlation than causation. Doesn’t seem like they’ve even tied the increased calls to known vax receivers. It just establishes there’s been an increase in certain heart related emergency calls after vaccines were rolled out. Which I’d think could also be related to financial stress, overwork, lethargy, poor eating etc… all exacerbated by the pandemic and the impacts of it.
Seems like that first one is more of a correlation than causation. Doesn’t seem like they’ve even tied the increased calls to known vax receivers. It just establishes there’s been an increase in certain heart related emergency calls after vaccines were rolled out. Which I’d think could also be related to financial stress, overwork, lethargy, poor eating etc… all exacerbated by the pandemic and the impacts of it.
if the article numbers were reversed (meaning more cardiac arrests from infection vs immunization) would that still be your response?
Hey, I’m just trying to point some abnormalities out that people probably should be keeping an eye on. That along w/ the 40% increase in all cause mortality tells me something is amiss and we should be watching, but if you want to ignore stuff like that and just say “nothing to see here, carry on” that’s your prerogative.
Seems like that first one is more of a correlation than causation. Doesn’t seem like they’ve even tied the increased calls to known vax receivers. It just establishes there’s been an increase in certain heart related emergency calls after vaccines were rolled out. Which I’d think could also be related to financial stress, overwork, lethargy, poor eating etc… all exacerbated by the pandemic and the impacts of it.
if the article numbers were reversed (meaning more cardiac arrests from infection vs immunization) would that still be your response?
It doesn't mention vaccination status vs unvaccinated status.
An increase of over 25% was detected in both call types during January–May 2021, compared with the years 2019–2020.
So in the first six months of last year, than the previous year and 2019. That's an awfully small sample, with one of those being at the very start of the pandemic.
ETA - this heart attacks from 16-39 year olds. How many cases is that? It could be an increase from 4 to 5. Without actual numbers on the study it's not worth much.
And again, I’m not saying w/o a shadow of a doubt that this is solely pinned on the vaccine. There are lots of factors to this, but it’s something we all should be keeping an eye on (and would definitely be paying attention if I was vaccinated).
I mean people on here know how I feel about the vaccine by now, but most everyone I know has been vaccinated so there is legitimate concern for them as well.
Seems like that first one is more of a correlation than causation. Doesn’t seem like they’ve even tied the increased calls to known vax receivers. It just establishes there’s been an increase in certain heart related emergency calls after vaccines were rolled out. Which I’d think could also be related to financial stress, overwork, lethargy, poor eating etc… all exacerbated by the pandemic and the impacts of it.
if the article numbers were reversed (meaning more cardiac arrests from infection vs immunization) would that still be your response?
My point is it doesn’t even show more arrests are due to vaccination. So yeah.
Looking at the graphs it appears that the vaccination lines up almost simultaneous with the increased calls and I can buy that there might be increased cardiac activity associated with that. I’d be curious to see how that compares with other vaccinations, like flu shots. Also would be useful to know how many of those turned out to be serious issues. However it’s not that granular.
Let’s say it’s true though. The cardiac arrest calls number goes from 152 to 191, year to year in the age cohort, and there’s only a big increase in that 16-39 age group. It’s also drops off steeply after that so it doesn’t appear to be a lasting issue. The number of vaccine recipients in this age group is 2.3 million and 2.1 million. So the volume goes up by about 40 calls after over 2 million people receive their shots. If I’m in that age range, that seems like a reasonable risk to me.
