Healthcare was working (for middle class and up anyway) pre-pandemic. Yes, costs were (and still are) going up way too fast. And yes, the whole system needs to be blown up and profit taken out of the equation.
Again, I’ll vehemently disagree that our healthcare system was working….unless by working you mean go to a doctor and get pills prescribed. We as a country are as unhealthy as ever.
And which is it “healthcare is working” or “blow the system up” because that measure shouldn’t be needed for a system that’s working.
Sounds like we can agree that our government sucks.
And regarding science, sure not all is industry backed….but much of what they are trusting during this pandemic IS industry backed science. And I hate to say it, but university backed research can be suspect as well, MANY MANY grants come from the same industry in which the universities are doing the studies on. For you to immediately shun anyone that are on YouTube or any other media platform is really closing you off of different opinions (and I’m not saying listen to some person that doesn’t have credentials…..there are many people on those platforms that can and should be taken as serious as anyone else in the scientific community).
And which is it “healthcare is working” or “blow the system up” because that measure shouldn’t be needed for a system that’s working.
It's both. My comment about it working should have been pretty clear I meant for middle class and up. It was working for things like when FB had an emergency, he could go to the hospital, get checked in, and get the care he needed. Now that's not the case because the systems regionally are overrun. You get this though. You're just being disingenuous again.
I say it deserves to be blown up because it has never worked for the poor. I've been saying for years (on here and elsewhere) that we need some sort of government funded healthcare or single-payer system. But that wouldn't matter right now, because those systems would still be overrun with unvaccinated COVID patients. So, let's get as many people vaccinated as humanly possible, get the hospitals to where normal emergencies don't have to be turned away anymore, and THEN institute a single payer system or M4A option.
Heyzeus, you are speaking to the frustrations of many HCP's who treat individuals that don't trust the medical establishment but when their lung capacity drops, they are very quick to trust the same medical establishment that tried to prevent them from needing their care in the first place.
As far as socialized medicine, I've been down this road with my own patients before. They hate the idea of socialized medicine (why should I pay for someone else?) until they themselves end up in the hospital staring down a six figure bill with no way to pay for it. Then, they have to go to GoFundMe or declare bankruptcy.
Heyzeus, you are speaking to the frustrations of many HCP's who treat individuals that don't trust the medical establishment but when their lung capacity drops, they are very quick to trust the same medical establishment that tried to prevent them from needing their care in the first place.
As far as socialized medicine, I've been down this road with my own patients before. They hate the idea of socialized medicine (why should I pay for someone else?) until they themselves end up in the hospital staring down a six figure bill with no way to pay for it. Then, they have to go to GoFundMe or declare bankruptcy.
This. And it's not fair to people who have health care emergency and needs that they cannot help.
It's easy to take a stand when your life isn't on the line. But when your life is potentially at jeopardy, who should get prioritized treatment?
1. The person who could have prevented it
2. The person with bad/poor genetics who can't help or prevent their needs
Heyzeus, you are speaking to the frustrations of many HCP's who treat individuals that don't trust the medical establishment but when their lung capacity drops, they are very quick to trust the same medical establishment that tried to prevent them from needing their care in the first place.
As far as socialized medicine, I've been down this road with my own patients before. They hate the idea of socialized medicine (why should I pay for someone else?) until they themselves end up in the hospital staring down a six figure bill with no way to pay for it. Then, they have to go to GoFundMe or declare bankruptcy.
This. And it's not fair to people who have health care emergency and needs that they cannot help.
It's easy to take a stand when your life isn't on the line. But when your life is potentially at jeopardy, who should get prioritized treatment?
1. The person who could have prevented it
2. The person with bad/poor genetics who can't help or prevent their needs
Abso - flooking - lutely.
In fact, if I was king, hospitals would have my permission to wheel unvaccinated COVID cases out of ICUs if the bed was needed by someone else. The unvaccinated should be at the very back of the queue.
Heyzeus, you are speaking to the frustrations of many HCP's who treat individuals that don't trust the medical establishment but when their lung capacity drops, they are very quick to trust the same medical establishment that tried to prevent them from needing their care in the first place.
As far as socialized medicine, I've been down this road with my own patients before. They hate the idea of socialized medicine (why should I pay for someone else?) until they themselves end up in the hospital staring down a six figure bill with no way to pay for it. Then, they have to go to GoFundMe or declare bankruptcy.
This. And it's not fair to people who have health care emergency and needs that they cannot help.
It's easy to take a stand when your life isn't on the line. But when your life is potentially at jeopardy, who should get prioritized treatment?
1. The person who could have prevented it
2. The person with bad/poor genetics who can't help or prevent their needs
In normal times, people with health care emergencies that they can't help AND people who make poor health care decisions will BOTH have no problem getting the treatment they deserve. When resources are limited, medical policies already answer your question. For example, in order to receive a lung transplant, patients need to quit smoking for at least 6 months...because giving smokers access to a lung transplant over those with congenital conditions is wrong. You aren't punishing the smoker. You are simply not rewarding him in a situation where resources are limited.
The unvaccinated should NOT be mistreated because they made a bad decision. But when it comes to rationing, they should be bottom billing. Not because of the punishment factor but because the survival of an anti-vaxxer over the survival of somebody who has a surgery postponed is a travesty. It just releases the person back into the world so they can continue to infect others while punishing someone for a non COVID related emergency. You aren't punishing the unvaccinated but rather allocating the resources in a way that account for epidemiological concerns.
The unvaccinated should NOT be mistreated because they made a bad decision. But when it comes to rationing, they should be bottom billing. Not because of the punishment factor but because the survival of an anti-vaxxer over the survival of somebody who has a surgery postponed is a travesty. It just releases the person back into the world so they can continue to infect others while punishing someone for a non COVID related emergency. You aren't punishing the unvaccinated but rather allocating the resources in a way that account for epidemiological concerns.
I agree, but that's not how it works. We're not going to throw Covid patients out of the hospital to make room for someone else. It's essentially first come, first served.
The unvaccinated should NOT be mistreated because they made a bad decision. But when it comes to rationing, they should be bottom billing. Not because of the punishment factor but because the survival of an anti-vaxxer over the survival of somebody who has a surgery postponed is a travesty. It just releases the person back into the world so they can continue to infect others while punishing someone for a non COVID related emergency. You aren't punishing the unvaccinated but rather allocating the resources in a way that account for epidemiological concerns.
I agree, but that's not how it works. We're not going to throw Covid patients out of the hospital to make room for someone else. It's essentially first come, first served.
As long as we are at or above capacity at the hospitals, we need to rethink that.
The unvaccinated should NOT be mistreated because they made a bad decision. But when it comes to rationing, they should be bottom billing. Not because of the punishment factor but because the survival of an anti-vaxxer over the survival of somebody who has a surgery postponed is a travesty. It just releases the person back into the world so they can continue to infect others while punishing someone for a non COVID related emergency. You aren't punishing the unvaccinated but rather allocating the resources in a way that account for epidemiological concerns.
I agree, but that's not how it works. We're not going to throw Covid patients out of the hospital to make room for someone else. It's essentially first come, first served.
As long as we are at or above capacity at the hospitals, we need to rethink that.
So you’re in a very small town w/ one hospital that has a very small number of ICU beds and a vaccinated person comes in w/ chest pains because of potential heart attack, but low and below you have 3 “less thans” taking up the beds.
Obviously this is purely hypothetical, but ICU’s fill up w/ all types of people.
Bed 1 : immunocompromised unvaccinated person (because they couldn’t get the vaccine because of their condition - but you know, still qualify as an unvaccinated)
Bed 2 : Car accident victim that happened to be drinking at the time of wreck (who is vaccinated)
Bed 3 : Prison inmate (also vaccinated) who was convicted of rape.
