Coronavirus

[GeddyWrox]

What aren't you suspicious of?

Plenty of things….but the government and health care system that relies on big pharma (all encompassing) are not included in those things.

You forgot a few. Journalism, scientists and statisticians are all professions you have explicitly bagged on in your refusals throughout this thread too.

You pretty much don't trust anything that props up society at this point. How does society even function in your world??

[cardinalkarp]

What aren't you suspicious of?

Plenty of things….but the government and health care system that relies on big pharma (all encompassing) are not included in those things.

You forgot a few. Journalism, scientists and statisticians are all professions you have explicitly bagged on in your refusals throughout this thread too.

You pretty much don't trust anything that props up society at this point. How does society even function in your world??

You keep asking me that….have you seen the health and environment of our country lately?

MSM Journalists = Laughable
Industry backed science = bought off

IT ISN’T F’ING FUNCTIONING!!

[Fat_Bulldog]

karp - what is fair? and what is your solution to answer GW's question?

What do you recommend that is fair to folks on how we should move forward. If you were in charge of all things, what would you do?

[cardinalkarp]

The legal departments of those hospitals would be extremely concerned to learn that they are simply not applying the proper standard of care to their unvaccinated patients. But to be clear, that's not happening.

What is happening is that unvaccinated patients comprise the overwhelming majority of the covid patients in ICUs around the country, the overwhelming number of patients on ventilators, and the overwhelming number of covid patients who are sadly passing away. And when you exclude patients over 75, it's pretty close to 100% for the categories of bad outcomes.

This is from the PREP Act:

What is a “covered countermeasure”?
The Secretary’s Declaration defines “covered countermeasures” as:
Any product used to treat, diagnose, cure, prevent, or mitigate COVID-19, or the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 or a virus mutating therefrom, or
Any device used in the administration of any such product, and
All components and constituent materials of any such product.
The April 14 opinion clarifies that a covered countermeasure is a drug, device or biological product and:
Must be used for COVID-19; and
Must be:
Approved, licensed or cleared by the Federal Drug Administration (FDA) (approved or cleared under chapter V or the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, 21 U.S.C.);
Authorized under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA)
Described in an Emergency Use Instruction (EUI) issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC); or
Used under either an Investigational New Drug (IND) application or Investigational Device Exemption (IDE).

What this does is basically limit what individual doctors can do for their patients whether they have FIRST HAND experience with what’s working on the ground.

Anything deviated from this “standard of care” opens them up to liability. The CDC and FDA have a pretty [expletive] track record with doing things that work durning this pandemic, but you better follow these strict guidelines OR ELSE!!

Look, I get it….you guys are all good w/ how this is all being handled. In fact, from most posts people wish things would be even more authoritarian….I’m fine w/ arguing my points, and countering back and forth. Honestly, I come in here to give a different perspective on things.

[Socnorb11]

Honestly, I think Id prefer to live in a more authoritarian society than to live in a constant state of paranoia.

[cardinalkarp]

Honestly, I think Id prefer to live in a more authoritarian society than to live in a constant state of paranoia.

If you think I’m paranoid, you’ve got an incorrect picture painted of me.

Skepticism and paranoia are two completely different things.

They actually want people paranoid about this pandemic so they can lay down the authoritarian rule.

[heyzeus]

If you believe that the Covid pandemic is a pretext to impose some form of authoritarian system of government, and our governmental response to the pandemic is not to minimize preventable death but in fact to achieve some sort of totalitarian state, then I'm afraid paranoia is on the table.

[cardinalkarp]

If you believe that the Covid pandemic is a pretext to impose some form of authoritarian system of government, and our governmental response to the pandemic is not to minimize preventable death but in fact to achieve some sort of totalitarian state, then I'm afraid paranoia is on the table.

I don’t believe that was ever the intention of the pandemic, but I do feel they are using that as a reason to try and gain some authoritarian rule.

And if you think they’ve handled this pandemic in a way to minimize death, then I’m not sure what to say. Granted they have had to come up w/ policy on the fly….but what they’ve come up w/ has been god awful.

[GeddyWrox]

What aren't you suspicious of?

Plenty of things….but the government and health care system that relies on big pharma (all encompassing) are not included in those things.

You forgot a few. Journalism, scientists and statisticians are all professions you have explicitly bagged on in your refusals throughout this thread too.

You pretty much don't trust anything that props up society at this point. How does society even function in your world??

You keep asking me that….have you seen the health and environment of our country lately?

MSM Journalists = Laughable
Industry backed science = bought off

IT ISN’T F’ING FUNCTIONING!!

Healthcare was working (for middle class and up anyway) pre-pandemic. Yes, costs were (and still are) going up way too fast. And yes, the whole system needs to be blown up and profit taken out of the equation. But without the burden of millions of COVID patients swarming the system, it wasn't in the middle of collapse like it is now. (And funny enough, we have a simple, easy way of ensuring that most COVID patients don't wind up in the hospital). Bottom line is that, pre-pandemic, the healthcare system wouldn't have had to turn away Fat_Bulldog and thousands more.

Government sucks, but that has always been true and always will be true. I'd like to see the GOP dissolve and the US go with a more Western European style Democratic Socialism, but that probably won't happen in my lifetime. GOP is trying to burn the rest of the federal government to the ground (see McConnell's 180 on the debt limit just to make Biden look bad... f*** that turtle man). But the Govt is still doing many necessary things. Without government, we literally become Lord of the Flies or The Walking Dead without the zombies.

The journalism you consume is only as good as the journalist who wrote it. People who decry "MSM SUCKS" are throwing out the baby with the bath water. There are hundreds or thousands of great journalists out there still. You just have to find them. The Atlantic, AP, Reuters, BBC... Journalism isn't dead. It just isn't Walter Kronkite on the nightly news any more.

Not all science is industry backed. Universities are doing a lot of research. But yes, a lot of science is. And that's why there is a scientific method and peer review process. Good science wins broad backing. Junk science does not and is relegated to the corners of the web like Youtube and such where the "I did my own research" crowd typically lands. As we've discussed in the past w/r/t bottom-line driven healthcare... until we aren't driven by capitalism, you're never going to get rid of money driving things. I think the scientific community is actually better safe-guarded than most from this (not fool proof though).

In a country driven by capitalism, how does society function if in fact it isn't F'ING functioning? I just struggle to see how anything in society works if it is all so entirely corrupt and untrustworthy.

[heyzeus]

If you believe that the Covid pandemic is a pretext to impose some form of authoritarian system of government, and our governmental response to the pandemic is not to minimize preventable death but in fact to achieve some sort of totalitarian state, then I'm afraid paranoia is on the table.

I don’t believe that was ever the intention of the pandemic, but I do feel they are using that as a reason to try and gain some authoritarian rule.

And if you think they’ve handled this pandemic in a way to minimize death, then I’m not sure what to say. Granted they have had to come up w/ policy on the fly….but what they’ve come up w/ has been god awful.

I wish ya good health and good luck, man. There's no reason to continue this conversation because we're living in different realities.