Coronavirus

[Socnorb11]

I’m sorry that I didn’t make it more widely known that I’m disgusted by our healthcare system prior to the pandemic.

Prior to the pandemic I could avoid the system and it’s disfunction, now it’s try to be forced upon me in some gestapo type fashion.

That is a different argument than "big pharma is evil because they profit from this"

Your excuses are all over the place.

This has been the pattern for awhile. He doesn't trust the medical industry, but he wants the medical industry to provide more options to fight Covid.

The truth is that the medical industry is almost certainly making more money off of the unvaccinated than they are the vaccinated. As someone pointed out earlier, one night in the hospital, hooked up to a ventilator............ thousands of dollars. That's going on all over the country, and it's almost all unvaccinated people. If you're really trying to avoid getting "snookered" by the medical industry, you're choosing the greater of two evils by not getting vaccinated. It makes no sense.

Good point. Not getting vaccinated because you want to avoid the US pharmaceutical industrial complex is probably not the best way to avoid said complex.

If you’re over 65 and/or have multi co-morbidities I would agree.

You would agree, even though the vaccine isn't "safe"?

[cardinalkarp]

I’m sorry that I didn’t make it more widely known that I’m disgusted by our healthcare system prior to the pandemic.

Prior to the pandemic I could avoid the system and it’s disfunction, now it’s try to be forced upon me in some gestapo type fashion.

That is a different argument than "big pharma is evil because they profit from this"

Your excuses are all over the place.

This has been the pattern for awhile. He doesn't trust the medical industry, but he wants the medical industry to provide more options to fight Covid.

The truth is that the medical industry is almost certainly making more money off of the unvaccinated than they are the vaccinated. As someone pointed out earlier, one night in the hospital, hooked up to a ventilator............ thousands of dollars. That's going on all over the country, and it's almost all unvaccinated people. If you're really trying to avoid getting "snookered" by the medical industry, you're choosing the greater of two evils by not getting vaccinated. It makes no sense.

Good point. Not getting vaccinated because you want to avoid the US pharmaceutical industrial complex is probably not the best way to avoid said complex.

If you’re over 65 and/or have multi co-morbidities I would agree.

You would agree, even though the vaccine isn't "safe"?

You can go back through my posts….I’ve always said that it makes sense for certain people to get the vaccine.

Do I think we’re getting the full story of the harm being done….absolutely not, and I also know as much people want to say they’re safe there is zero long term data stating such.

But even w/ those questions, yes….I think some people should get the vaccine if they feel it’s the best option for them.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Can we sum up the vaccination talk as follows in this thread so it doesn't have to go back and forth (in here, feel free to discuss the details in politics):

It's a risk calculation. There's risk associated with the virus. There's risk associated with the vaccine. Some feel the virus poses the larger risk. Some feel the vaccine (coupled with the ability to avoid the virus) poses the larger risk. Some feel there is not enough information to make the calculation and error on the side of not getting the vaccine. Some feel there is not enough information to make the calculation and error on the side of getting the vaccine. Some feel the vaccine is not necessary due to previous natural infections. In some ways, politics influences some peoples' decisions.

I think that, broadly, encompasses all the points. All have their merits except the last one.

[thrill]

All have their merits except the last one.

Important relevant point you left out in your summary: while all may have some merit, they do not objectively have the same merit. Based on the information we have and the guidance we've been given by experts, the most merit, by far, is getting vaccinated. The points of view, which you captured accurately, are not close to equal on merit. That's a pretty major factor in this conversation.

[CardsofSTL]

We just got notice today that another of our client facilities are requiring all employees/contractors/vendors to be vaccinated by November 1 in order to operate in their facility. That makes it roughly 25% of our client locations now. I imagine that percentage will increase.

[Arthur Dent]

Revising my views on the kids vaccine. The risks of COVID to kids remains quite low, but the rate of serious vaccine side effects (heart inflammation) is significant for young boys. Two dose vaccination for many young boys may be a net health negative even assuming all will eventually get infected. My impression is that the ideal course here would be to reduce the dosage and/or possibly tailor to individual expected risks considering comorbitities, but also worth remembering that the disease risk for kids has been and mercifully remains enormously lower than for older people.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Revising my views on the kids vaccine. The risks of COVID to kids remains quite low, but the rate of serious vaccine side effects (heart inflammation) is significant for young boys. Two dose vaccination for many young boys may be a net health negative even assuming all will eventually get infected. My impression is that the ideal course here would be to reduce the dosage and/or possibly tailor to individual expected risks considering comorbitities, but also worth remembering that the disease risk for kids has been and mercifully remains enormously lower than for older people.

Thanks for posting.

I’ve kind of been looking into this. What I find odd is that kids do better against covid because of a stronger innate arm of the immune system. The vax targets the adaptive arm. There is synergy between the two and a strong adaptive response from ththe onset is going to be beneficial. But how much benefit can you get?


The Arkansas doh has started tracking pediatric cases with 3 deaths in 85k cases, 102 icu admissions and 770 hospitalizations. All I know is deaths, but all 3 have occurred after delta arrived and best guess is delta accounts for 20-25k of the 85k pediatric cases.

So a 0.00015 case fatality rate with delta. Which is going to be much higher than the actual infection fatality rate because so many kids aren’t getting tested.

Their innate arm is remarkably good at killing covid. Why risk anything that could harm it? Of course not every kid has a strong innate immune system. It’s not a one sized fits all solution.

But I imagine we’ll get the kids their flu shots but it’ll be a while before they get a covid vaccine.

I had a lot longer response typed out earlier today and have a lot to say about kids but I’ll just say that. And this. kids don’t need to be afraid of covid regardless of masks or grandparents or whatever. It’s a good opportunity to teach them they have a responsibility as privileged little [expletive] that are largely already immune to a serious threat to the world. They should be thankful for that but also know they can do their part to protect teachers, and parents, and grandparents, and the world in general by taking extra precautions, wearing masks, and loving their friends all the same...But don’t become blood* or spit brothers right now.

*anyone else remember reading the Indian in the cupboard in school and having the teacher say blood brothers are not recommended because of the aids pandemic at the time?

[GeddyWrox]

I remember the blood brother warnings, AW!

[MrCrowesGarden]

Labor Department is going to require all companies with 100+ workers to have them vaccinated or submit to weekly testing

[G. Keenan]

Mississippi has recorded 72 fetal deaths in unvaccinated pregnant women infected with the coronavirus, state health officials announced Wednesday, sounding the alarm on the virus’s danger in pregnancy.

Speaking during a news conference, Mississippi State Health Officer Thomas Dobbs said those deaths had occurred since the start of the pandemic. The number, which includes only deaths that occurred past 20 weeks of gestation, "is twice the background rate of what would be expected,” he said.

“That’s quite a number of tragedies that, sadly, would be preventable right now,” Dobbs said, referring to the availability of vaccines.