Coronavirus

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

If someone says "Anthony Fauci created COVID," that's a good cue to disregard every single thing that person has to offer.

I don’t think he meant that in a literal sense, but Fauci has definitely been strongly in favor of “gain of function” research and directly helped fund the Wuhan lab where it potentially could have been created an leaked from.

Of course this is probably get me labeled as “crazy” and a conspiracy theorist.

https://news.yahoo.com/fauci-claims-us- ... 26801.html
The US government gave it $600,000, over 6 years, to help research bat-based coronavirus outbreaks. Unless you think they'd already planned it was going to be released via bats 6 years ago. And think $100,000 a year is enough. And think Fauci was the only person who knew about or approved of the grant.

I just have honestly lost all trust and faith in our government telling the truth about anything, and I especially don’t trust big pharma being transparent about the potential dangers of this vaccine.

But you believe whichever fringe news place reported "Fauci funded the Wuhan lab where COVID-19 was created". Why is that?

Your link doesn’t work for me. Do you have another?

Fauci very likely won’t have a red bullet or whatever you want to call it leading back to him. But... let’s call a spade a spade.

Our colleague Josh Rogin reported that this 2017 research article prompted U.S. diplomats and scientists to visit the WIV facility. Afterward, they sent a cable to Washington expressing concern about the safety standards there, intended as “a warning about a potential public-health crisis.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... b-funding/

[Leroy]

Here's a nice use of stats...Fauci is saying the vast majority of deaths are in unvaccinated people. No s Dick Tracy. Something close to 500,000 had died before we even had a vaccine. That stat will be the case probably forever.

[Leroy]

I missed karp saying Fauci funded the lab.

Kind of tired of everything that goes against a narrative is either a fringe news outfit, a deranged person, a debunked theory or whatever.

The main question is did this come from some Chinese person eating a bat and random chance of said bat having this virus from out of the blue, or possibly a lab 6 or so blocks away that was testing this very virus? If you put any credence in the latter, I don't think you are a deranged person. And you don't have to blame Fauci. Blaming Soros or Gates is ok though.

[Leroy]

In Canada, 25,041,027 people (65.89% of the population) have received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine. 17,707,804 people (46.59% of the population) are partially vaccinated. 7,333,223 people (19.30% of the population) are fully vaccinated.

This makes no sense. Isn't one dose partially vaccinated? What does the 46.59 represent? And if only 19.3% are fully vaccinated, isn't that pretty crappy compared to the US?

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

In Canada, 25,041,027 people (65.89% of the population) have received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine. 17,707,804 people (46.59% of the population) are partially vaccinated. 7,333,223 people (19.30% of the population) are fully vaccinated.

This makes no sense. Isn't one dose partially vaccinated? What does the 46.59 represent? And if only 19.3% are fully vaccinated, isn't that pretty crappy compared to the US?

Add fully vaxxed (received two doses of two dose regimens or one dose of single dose regimens) and partially vaxxed (received one dose of two dose regimens) to get the number that's received at least one dose.

For comparison, the US has ~55% with at least one dose with 47% fully vaxxed.

[G. Keenan]

I missed karp saying Fauci funded the lab.

Kind of tired of everything that goes against a narrative is either a fringe news outfit, a deranged person, a debunked theory or whatever.

The main question is did this come from some Chinese person eating a bat and random chance of said bat having this virus from out of the blue, or possibly a lab 6 or so blocks away that was testing this very virus? If you put any credence in the latter, I don't think you are a deranged person. And you don't have to blame Fauci. Blaming Soros or Gates is ok though.

What is "the narrative?" What does that mean? Does that mean mainstream media aka The New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, NBC, CBS aka legacy media? They and other mainstream media have made plenty of mistakes over the years but in general they have a high bar for reporting and seek to correct the record when they get it wrong. Does "the narrative" mean Fauci? I personally don't get why people say "but Fauci said we didn't need to wear masks then later he did say we should wear masks so he can't be trusted." What kind of brain worm thinking is that? Scientists, unlike politicians, change their minds when presented with new information. Why is it so hard for people to grasp the idea that a scientist and doctor like Fauci has changed his thinking on various aspects of the pandemic as new knowledge has been gained? This is literally how all science and all knowledge work in all aspects of life.

The problem is you get kooks and grifters who literally make their living off of saying goofy things on platforms with no standards "just asking questions" designed to confuse people and feed their preexisting biases against expertise. "I'm just asking, how do we know Fauci didn't personally design the virus? I heard there was an email somewhere." "I'm just saying, isn't it convenient this vaccine came out so fast, almost like they released the virus on purpose just to sell the cure. A plandemic, if you will."

And when "just asking questions" what evidence do these people give? Fringe news outlets, aka bloggers, and debunked theories. Be tired of the people pushing garbage on you to hold your attention a few minutes longer so they can sell a few more ads.

It's not that a Chinese person ate a bat. It's that a virus from a bat could have jumped into a farm animal being raised near the bat caves. Imagine if in Iowa there were millions of hogs being reared a couple miles from giant caves full of millions of bats. Or it could have jumped from a bat into a wild forest animal being sold at the wet exotic animal markets, and from there into a human. Or yes, maybe it did escape from the Wuhan lab where they were researching coronaviruses. All scenarios are accidents. None is a sinister plot, though clearly more care should be taken in any of these scenarios to protect public health.

Regardless, there are clickbait hustlers out there selling a yarn that Fauci is some kind of villain because the NIH partially funded some of this lab's research. As if the NIH or Fauci caused the pandemic just by being scientists in the first place. They are the ones with "the narrative" here, which boils down to, "don't trust the scientists." A lot of people won't. They won't get the vaccine. They won't wear a mask. And some number of them will die as a result because they decided Tucker Carlson or a random YouTube blogger who raised some interesting questions about the "true origins of the virus" are more credible sources of information than the CDC or the NIH.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Generally agree with you Keenan.

Couple things I'd point out, not to take away from your overall point/post which is excellent, but to add some nuance.

I don't think the CDC has taken a position on the origin of the virus and the Director of the CDC as the pandemic unfolded, in a role as a civilian only, has expressed he believes it started in the lab.

Fauci didn't not know masks were useful, he was concerned about a shortage of masks for healthcare workers. He essentially stated this, and then later clarified that it was not known masks would be helpful outside of a medical setting; however, various literature on the subject prior to the pandemic is clear masks prevent the spread of coronaviruses. So, it's probable he knew and just manipulated the truth to achieve his goal of preventing a further run on masks.

[G. Keenan]

Generally agree with you Keenan.

Couple things I'd point out, not to take away from your overall point/post which is excellent, but to add some nuance.

I don't think the CDC has taken a position on the origin of the virus and the Director of the CDC as the pandemic unfolded, in a role as a civilian only, has expressed he believes it started in the lab.

Fauci didn't not know masks were useful, he was concerned about a shortage of masks for healthcare workers. He essentially stated this, and then later clarified that it was not known masks would be helpful outside of a medical setting; however, various literature on the subject prior to the pandemic is clear masks prevent the spread of coronaviruses. So, it's probable he knew and just manipulated the truth to achieve his goal of preventing a further run on masks.

That's fair. You distill those two "scandals" down perfectly. With the lab leak theory it is important to know if that's how it started so we can learn lessons to prevent it from happening again. There are labs researching contagious viruses all over the world. Good chance there are any number with more lax safety protocols than the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Has anyone in an official US Government capacity ever said the virus did not or could not have leaked from the lab? None that I am aware of. Maybe they made comments their critics haven't felt to be sufficiently hawkish and accusatory? I mean, where's the beef? For the good of the whole world we should understand the virus's origins. Who, other than China, is trying to prevent us from knowing that?

With the Fauci is a hack because he didn't immediately suggest mask wearing scandal, (which ironically is a case only made by people who never wore masks in the first place because freedom) we can speculate about why he didn't hop on the mask bandwagon immediately. After an insanely long and distinguished career as a public servant using his considerable scientific expertise in service of the public, don't we owe him the benefit of the doubt? Whatever the cause, we have no reason to suspect ill intent. Your scenario is totally plausible and supported by the public record. So the scandal is, Fauci made a judgement call he thought would on balance be best for public health? String him up! What a fake! Isn't he the same guy who couldn't stop the AIDS pandemic? What a loser. Why are we listening to this guy? Maybe he started the whole thing funding that lab and is just trying to cover his tracks.

You get the idea. It's crazy, and even as a narrative has no productive upside because it discourages trust in scientists and these very real, very safe, very effective vaccines. It's bad for public health. So why tell it? What good does it do? It's an own goal on America. I don't get it. It does get results though if you prefer your fellow citizens and constituents be more like superstitious medieval villagers than informed citizenry capable of self-government.

[Leroy]

So if vaccines work even against the DELTA THE DELTA THE DELTA, and keep people from dying and getting really sick, cool.
Then why are vaccinated people worried about the unvaccinated heathens? The one in 10,000 shot that you could get sick and die even though you were vaccinated? Aren't unvaccinated people just running around infecting or getting the virus from other unvaccinated people? I'm vaccinated now but did it simply for convenience, my guess is schools in which I spend most of my time in the fall might require vaccinations.

I don't care anymore about what Fauci said about masks. Perhaps he is some great humanitarian for saving hospital from shortages. But what shortage did he save by saying it wasn't a big deal and it wasn't something to worry about? Toilet paper? We had that shortage anyway.

Masks, masks, masks. I wore a mask. All the time. My wife did too. She works in a hospital, so all the time. We got COVID. Whoa. How did that happen? Instead of telling us how many unvaccinated people died, how about telling us how many of the 600,000 dead Americans were anti mask?

I just really got sick with the endless, 'I stand with Fauci' everywhere. Basically, he wasn't Trump and that's what people love about him. Big deal. Not a high bar.

And as far as the lab or the bat or whatever, I don't think I'm a crackpot because I don't believe a word coming out of China.

[GeddyWrox]

Vaxxed folks are (or should be) worried about the unvaxxed because:
- The unvaxxed are still spreading the virus like crazy (see: Arkansas and Missouri) and this thing is mutating. The more times it mutates, the more of a chance our protection becomes limited (which might already be happening with Delta)
- Children under 12 cannot get the vaccine yet and are a lot more vulnerable to Delta than the earlier strains
- We are headed towards another surge late summer, early fall. This will probably be more localized to regions with lower vax rates, but still will be a crisis.