"not worthy of its own thread" offseason thread

[10xandcounting]

According to cots they have over 40mil under the tax so a 9 mil flyer on Reed shouldn't be an issue for a Donaldson pickup. However I'm a prospect honk and if Helsey or Hicks comes up and locks down this bullpen I would be more pumped about that than anything.

1st post in over 6years, just a lurker normally.

[JoeMcKim]

Adrian Gonzalez is going to the Mets.

[Tim]

I guess it is just hard for me to understand why we didn't resign Nicasio and sign Reed. These are positions of need and would not preclude us from going all in in next year's free agency bonanza or making a play for Donaldson at the trade deadline.

I would feel much more confident having those two arms in the pen, rather than the pixie dust of John Brebbia or Matt Bowman's shot arm.

[Magneto2.0]

My thing is, if Mo feels all the teams are close, then why wouldn't you make a few extra moves to separate yourself from the pack? That makes no sense.

"We're all equal, so I'm not gonna do anything else to stand out, and just hope we all finished 82-82" like, what are you talking about?

[Magneto2.0]

I guess it is just hard for me to understand why we didn't resign Nicasio and sign Reed. These are positions of need and would not preclude us from going all in in next year's free agency bonanza or making a play for Donaldson at the trade deadline.

I would feel much more confident having those two arms in the pen, rather than the pixie dust of John Brebbia or Matt Bowman's shot arm.

Eh, I don't understand the love for Nicasio. Outside of last season, Nicasio has been pretty horrendous. I have no faith he's replicate his 2017 season. Plus he only pitched 11 innings for us, not even like he had a good half a season for us.

But not going after Reed makes no sense.

[Socnorb11]

These guys aren't a bunch of high school dropouts making these decisions. They've been one of the most successful MLB franchises. Granted, they're not perfect, but they've done well. I trust that they have a long-term plan that will work out well.

We're not all the successful when we don't have Albert Pujols.

This is interesting... since the transition point of 2006, we have won over 90 games just 4 times. We have 90 wins or fewer 8 times. Yes, there was playoff success in there -- and I'm definitely not discounting that -- but overall, we've been playing this 85-90 win game for a long time.

Try to make a list of the teams that have done better. It's a really really short list.

We keep talking about how the Cubs are outsmarting us and outspending us. They could use a good relief pitcher too, but they also passed on Reed. I think the Reed deal was fair, but it's not insignificant if you've got a bigger plan.

[Socnorb11]

These guys aren't a bunch of high school dropouts making these decisions. They've been one of the most successful MLB franchises. Granted, they're not perfect, but they've done well. I trust that they have a long-term plan that will work out well.

We're not all the successful when we don't have Albert Pujols.

This is interesting... since the transition point of 2006, we have won over 90 games just 4 times. We have 90 wins or fewer 8 times. Yes, there was playoff success in there -- and I'm definitely not discounting that -- but overall, we've been playing this 85-90 win game for a long time.

That wasn't such a big deal when the Cubs weren't very good and we only had to worry about the low-payroll Reds and Brewers, but the Cubs have completely changed the landscape of the NL Central. Right now, they're still out there chasing Darvish or Arrieta despite the fact that they already have Quintana and Lester. They'll likely get one of those guys, too. They did quite a bit to improve their bullpen. They're a very good team again.

Frankly, the Cubs are killing us in just about every area recently and I don't see a path where Jack Flaherty and Harrison Bader or whoever you think is going to make this club so good in '19 is going to do anything to change that. Yeah, maybe we give Machado $400M, but that seems extremely unlikely. It seems far more likely that the Cubs do that.

++. It was easy to play bully poker, but the Cardinals aren't the big stack anymore, both literally and figuratively. Outside of Reyes, I don't see the excitement. The prospects otherwise can be useful players but by far their most desirable trait is cost.

If there's not much value in these guys, then what makes you think that Mo could use them to acquire exceptional players? It seems that we think other teams are going to give us gold for our garbage.

You can't have it both ways. You can't say that Mo has all of these assets that he should be using to build a great team, but when it looks like we might be stuck with those assets, you can't say there's no value there.


In 2019, guys like Weaver and Flaherty and Reyes will hopefully have matured into valuable big-league players. Kelly will hopefully have found a role. We'll know where we stand with guys like Hicks and Lyons and Dejong. Waino's $19 mil will be off the books. That's when the iron will be hot, in my opinion.

That's basically what the Cubs did. They didn't try to build the best possible team every off-season. They waited until all of the young pieces were in place, and then they made the big moves to get over the top.

[MrCrowesGarden]

I think Weaver and Flaherty are big league pieces, what I’m saying is that they’re not premier players. Obviously there’s value in a number 3 starter, but the Cardinals have many, too many guys at that talent level with very little in the way of being better. If teams are going to prioritize years of control over the talent of players then that’s an opportunity to strike and improve. Otherwise you’re talking about constructing a team that’s a lot like what we have now, high floor but low ceiling.

[Magneto2.0]

These guys aren't a bunch of high school dropouts making these decisions. They've been one of the most successful MLB franchises. Granted, they're not perfect, but they've done well. I trust that they have a long-term plan that will work out well.

We're not all the successful when we don't have Albert Pujols.

This is interesting... since the transition point of 2006, we have won over 90 games just 4 times. We have 90 wins or fewer 8 times. Yes, there was playoff success in there -- and I'm definitely not discounting that -- but overall, we've been playing this 85-90 win game for a long time.

That wasn't such a big deal when the Cubs weren't very good and we only had to worry about the low-payroll Reds and Brewers, but the Cubs have completely changed the landscape of the NL Central. Right now, they're still out there chasing Darvish or Arrieta despite the fact that they already have Quintana and Lester. They'll likely get one of those guys, too. They did quite a bit to improve their bullpen. They're a very good team again.

Frankly, the Cubs are killing us in just about every area recently and I don't see a path where Jack Flaherty and Harrison Bader or whoever you think is going to make this club so good in '19 is going to do anything to change that. Yeah, maybe we give Machado $400M, but that seems extremely unlikely. It seems far more likely that the Cubs do that.

++. It was easy to play bully poker, but the Cardinals aren't the big stack anymore, both literally and figuratively. Outside of Reyes, I don't see the excitement. The prospects otherwise can be useful players but by far their most desirable trait is cost.

If there's not much value in these guys, then what makes you think that Mo could use them to acquire exceptional players? It seems that we think other teams are going to give us gold for our garbage.

You can't have it both ways. You can't say that Mo has all of these assets that he should be using to build a great team, but when it looks like we might be stuck with those assets, you can't say there's no value there.


In 2019, guys like Weaver and Flaherty and Reyes will hopefully have matured into valuable big-league players. Kelly will hopefully have found a role. We'll know where we stand with guys like Hicks and Lyons and Dejong. Waino's $19 mil will be off the books. That's when the iron will be hot, in my opinion.

That's basically what the Cubs did. They didn't try to build the best possible team every off-season. They waited until all of the young pieces were in place, and then they made the big moves to get over the top.

The Cubs relied on highly regarded prospects.

Outside of Reyes, we don't have any prospects like that, and as far as everyday prospects, we have no potential real difference makers. Just a lot of the same.

[jagtrader]

There's no explanation for going into next season with the current bullpen other than the front office [expletive] blew it.