"not worthy of its own thread" offseason thread

[Socnorb11]

The $9 million for Reed absolutely wouldn’t be the difference between signing Donaldson or not and is disingenuous to present as such. Hell, they’ve cut payroll by $10 million. They’re also entering a new TV deal that will pay them 3-4 times more a year than what they had been getting and also just reaped $50 million for the BAMTech sale.

It’d be fine not to sign Reed if there was a better option on the roster, but there isn’t. Instead they’re ignoring an easily fixable hole on the roster for a team where every last win matters.

They've cut payroll by $10 million. If you give $9 million of that to Reed, then you're basically back where you started. Where are you getting the $25 mil to give to Donaldson, plus arbitration raises for guys like Wacha, Ozuna, Grichuk, etc.?

$9 mil isn't a ton, but it's also not irrelevant. Especially for a relief pitcher.

[Socnorb11]

Also, as already mentioned, we still have ALL of that young talent in the system. If they're right on the bubble in mid-2018, what's stopping them from tweaking the team to get over the top? See if the current bullpen arsenal is good enough........... or not. See if we need a bat mid-season. Let the current roster go out and play, see where you're at, and then strike where you need to.

Patience.

But those games in April, May and June matter too. It’s like punting on second down.

We'll see.

I'm fine with the "let's see what we've got" approach. I'd rather be in a position to strike mid-season, after evaluating the current roster performance.

Plus, 2018 still hasn't started. May be more moves made before then.

Patience, grasshopper.

[MrCrowesGarden]

But you’re not back to where you started because revenue keeps increasing and they’ve still got the money they’ve pocketed from previous seasons. $9 million is a drop in the bucket for the Cardinals.

[MrCrowesGarden]

I think wait and see is absolutely the wrong approach, especially with how easy it would’ve been to fill these holes.

[Socnorb11]

I think wait and see is absolutely the wrong approach, especially with how easy it would’ve been to fill these holes.

If it's easy, I think they would have done it.

These guys aren't a bunch of high school dropouts making these decisions. They've been one of the most successful MLB franchises. Granted, they're not perfect, but they've done well. I trust that they have a long-term plan that will work out well.

[Fat Strat]

If our strategy was to wait and see about 2019, then why did we invest so much in Ozuna, who is going to get a huge pay check in '19 and likely be gone in 2020? It's just very clear that they initiated half of a strategy. Something went wrong with this plan.

I think it's obvious that Tampa Bay was what went wrong. They could never get a deal worked out for Colome and Longoria, though they very clearly wanted to. So, don't pull out the 2019 strategy when they initially pursued solutions for '18 more aggressively than we've seen in a long time and then, for some reason, pulled away when the market slowed down. I mean, Goold was pretty much convinced that the Rays and Cards were going to finish a deal just after the Winter Meetings. To go from that point to not even being willing to pull the trigger on a discounted Addison Reed is a head-scratcher. Colome's not much better, honestly, and would have cost us more.

[MrCrowesGarden]

I think wait and see is absolutely the wrong approach, especially with how easy it would’ve been to fill these holes.

If it's easy, I think they would have done it.

These guys aren't a bunch of high school dropouts making these decisions. They've been one of the most successful MLB franchises. Granted, they're not perfect, but they've done well. I trust that they have a long-term plan that will work out well.

I think they didn't do it for the reason they almost always don't do it: money. It appears they were willing to extend for Stanton and Stanton alone. That's disappointing.

There's no "well who could've seen this coming?" excuse this year that's acceptable because many on here see it.

[Socnorb11]

If our strategy was to wait and see about 2019, then why did we invest so much in Ozuna, who is going to get a huge pay check in '19 and likely be gone in 2020? It's just very clear that they initiated half of a strategy. Something went wrong with this plan.

I think it's obvious that Tampa Bay was what went wrong. They could never get a deal worked out for Colome and Longoria, though they very clearly wanted to. So, don't pull out the 2019 strategy when they initially pursued solutions for '18 more aggressively than we've seen in a long time and then, for some reason, pulled away when the market slowed down. I mean, Goold was pretty much convinced that the Rays and Cards were going to finish a deal just after the Winter Meetings. To go from that point to not even being willing to pull the trigger on a discounted Addison Reed is a head-scratcher. Colome's not much better, honestly, and would have cost us more.

I think they explored all sorts of options (smart). They weren't willing to sacrifice the pieces that TB wanted, because they're pretty excited about those pieces. I am too. It didn't hurt to take a peek, though. I'm glad, because Colome and Longoria are pretty "meh" anyway.

Reed is a little more confusing, granted. For whatever reason, they weren't enamored with him. It's a little surprising that no other teams were either, considering the short-term, reasonable contract. My guess is that when the TB thing didn't work out, the team set their sites on running with what they've got, and focusing on a real run in 2019.

[Fat Strat]

These guys aren't a bunch of high school dropouts making these decisions. They've been one of the most successful MLB franchises. Granted, they're not perfect, but they've done well. I trust that they have a long-term plan that will work out well.

We're not all the successful when we don't have Albert Pujols.

This is interesting... since the transition point of 2006, we have won over 90 games just 4 times. We have 90 wins or fewer 8 times. Yes, there was playoff success in there -- and I'm definitely not discounting that -- but overall, we've been playing this 85-90 win game for a long time.

That wasn't such a big deal when the Cubs weren't very good and we only had to worry about the low-payroll Reds and Brewers, but the Cubs have completely changed the landscape of the NL Central. Right now, they're still out there chasing Darvish or Arrieta despite the fact that they already have Quintana and Lester. They'll likely get one of those guys, too. They did quite a bit to improve their bullpen. They're a very good team again.

Frankly, the Cubs are killing us in just about every area recently and I don't see a path where Jack Flaherty and Harrison Bader or whoever you think is going to make this club so good in '19 is going to do anything to change that. Yeah, maybe we give Machado $400M, but that seems extremely unlikely. It seems far more likely that the Cubs do that.

[MrCrowesGarden]

These guys aren't a bunch of high school dropouts making these decisions. They've been one of the most successful MLB franchises. Granted, they're not perfect, but they've done well. I trust that they have a long-term plan that will work out well.

We're not all the successful when we don't have Albert Pujols.

This is interesting... since the transition point of 2006, we have won over 90 games just 4 times. We have 90 wins or fewer 8 times. Yes, there was playoff success in there -- and I'm definitely not discounting that -- but overall, we've been playing this 85-90 win game for a long time.

That wasn't such a big deal when the Cubs weren't very good and we only had to worry about the low-payroll Reds and Brewers, but the Cubs have completely changed the landscape of the NL Central. Right now, they're still out there chasing Darvish or Arrieta despite the fact that they already have Quintana and Lester. They'll likely get one of those guys, too. They did quite a bit to improve their bullpen. They're a very good team again.

Frankly, the Cubs are killing us in just about every area recently and I don't see a path where Jack Flaherty and Harrison Bader or whoever you think is going to make this club so good in '19 is going to do anything to change that. Yeah, maybe we give Machado $400M, but that seems extremely unlikely. It seems far more likely that the Cubs do that.

++. It was easy to play bully poker, but the Cardinals aren't the big stack anymore, both literally and figuratively. Outside of Reyes, I don't see the excitement. The prospects otherwise can be useful players but by far their most desirable trait is cost.