Outer Space Thread

[jim]

Why'd we have to get the one universe where aliens run around giving humans clandestine anal probes?

Actually I don't think the infinite multiverse exist, because you're telling me that everything conceivable is possible where a) the cubs can still win the world series, b) a universe where aliens come to earth just to themselves get anally probed, c) that both of the aformentioned things can happen in the same universe, where the cubs win the world series and aliens immediately land at Wrigley field and both the cubs and the aliens start giving each other mutual anal probes while Barack Obama rides around the warning track on a unicycle playing "Row Row Row your Boat" on a recorder.

This just sounds so incredibly stupid that it would not possibly exist, yet according to the infinite multiverse it should and does.






No.

In all seriousness, infinite doesn't mean absurd (like the Cubs winning 11 World Series). At each state of a universe, there is a range of possible outcomes for the next state, and all outcomes exists as the viable possible outcomes of quantum mechanics. So while I could be sitting here typing this, and an infinite number of my dopple whatevers are tying this same things, and *THIS* moment we diverge (some of us - as in an infinite number of us while another infinite number continue typing to branch later) based on the fluctuations of quantum mechanics. But, there isn't a universe out there where at *THIS* moment I turned into an elephant. That is not possible through quantum fluctuations. A neuron might have fired differntly in my brain at *THIS* moment, causing a cascade of changes that might result in a slightly different rate in which I type, or a trigger another neuron which triggers more which eventually causes me to do somethign slightly different, or whatever. If *THIS* moment is when I'm standing at a curve on a busy street and a bus comes by, maybe it's in the quantum realm that I step out into the bus and get killed. Maybe - that might be a possible universe.

[pioneer98]

Then, I try to apply that same mind bending amount of space/time and say....Earth:Universe::Universe:Multiverse but even smaller.....just crazy.

Yeah it is crazy, but matter is just another form of energy. When a nuclear reaction happens, matter is converted to energy. It is hard for me to grasp, too, how matter can basically be converted into heat, or light.

Another concept I struggled with in that picture I posted was a mark on the timeline that said "earliest time with visible light". I can't imagine what the universe would have looked like without visible light. I guess it would have been full of matter and waves not on the visible spectrum then?

[pioneer98]

Why'd we have to get the one universe where aliens run around giving humans clandestine anal probes?

Actually I don't think the infinite multiverse exist, because you're telling me that everything conceivable is possible where a) the cubs can still win the world series, b) a universe where aliens come to earth just to themselves get anally probed, c) that both of the aformentioned things can happen in the same universe, where the cubs win the world series and aliens immediately land at Wrigley field and both the cubs and the aliens start giving each other mutual anal probes while Barack Obama rides around the warning track on a unicycle playing "Row Row Row your Boat" on a recorder.

This just sounds so incredibly stupid that it would not possibly exist, yet according to the infinite multiverse it should and does.






No.

In all seriousness, infinite doesn't mean absurd (like the Cubs winning 11 World Series). At each state of a universe, there is a range of possible outcomes for the next state, and all outcomes exists as the viable possible outcomes of quantum mechanics. So while I could be sitting here typing this, and an infinite number of my dopple whatevers are tying this same things, and *THIS* moment we diverge (some of us - as in an infinite number of us while another infinite number continue typing to branch later) based on the fluctuations of quantum mechanics. But, there isn't a universe out there where at *THIS* moment I turned into an elephant. That is not possible through quantum fluctuations. A neuron might have fired differntly in my brain at *THIS* moment, causing a cascade of changes that might result in a slightly different rate in which I type, or a trigger another neuron which triggers more which eventually causes me to do somethign slightly different, or whatever. If *THIS* moment is when I'm standing at a curve on a busy street and a bus comes by, maybe it's in the quantum realm that I step out into the bus and get killed. Maybe - that might be a possible universe.

The basis of the doppelganger idea is that if you have the same exact molecules in the same exact configuration making up the same exact person on the same exact planet, then their thoughts, actions, etc would also be identical. I don't agree with this idea. I agree with you that there is some kind of randomness built into the universe, so that even if you started out even with an entire identical planet or galaxy, eventually they would diverge and stop being identical just due to random variations.

[pioneer98]

As far as the multiverse...I don't have a clue but I kind of lean against it. During this discussion we kind of come back to the the question of whether life exists elsewhere. Is life really incredibly special, or is it commonplace? There is an idea I read once where someone suggested that maybe there is an incredibly delicate balance of the laws of physics required for life to exist within a universe. If there are a ton of other universes out there but their laws of physics are slightly different, then it might be possible life never existed in those other universes. To me, this seems like a possibility - there might be an infinite number of universes but a finite number of "solutions" to the question of whether they can support life. There are math problems like that out there - some problems have an infinite number of solutions, and other problems have a finite number of solutions.

[Fat_Bulldog]

Eleventy

[Jocephus]

ya'll should be able to figure out the universe in 3 pages max

[jim]

Why'd we have to get the one universe where aliens run around giving humans clandestine anal probes?

Actually I don't think the infinite multiverse exist, because you're telling me that everything conceivable is possible where a) the cubs can still win the world series, b) a universe where aliens come to earth just to themselves get anally probed, c) that both of the aformentioned things can happen in the same universe, where the cubs win the world series and aliens immediately land at Wrigley field and both the cubs and the aliens start giving each other mutual anal probes while Barack Obama rides around the warning track on a unicycle playing "Row Row Row your Boat" on a recorder.

This just sounds so incredibly stupid that it would not possibly exist, yet according to the infinite multiverse it should and does.






No.

In all seriousness, infinite doesn't mean absurd (like the Cubs winning 11 World Series). At each state of a universe, there is a range of possible outcomes for the next state, and all outcomes exists as the viable possible outcomes of quantum mechanics. So while I could be sitting here typing this, and an infinite number of my dopple whatevers are tying this same things, and *THIS* moment we diverge (some of us - as in an infinite number of us while another infinite number continue typing to branch later) based on the fluctuations of quantum mechanics. But, there isn't a universe out there where at *THIS* moment I turned into an elephant. That is not possible through quantum fluctuations. A neuron might have fired differntly in my brain at *THIS* moment, causing a cascade of changes that might result in a slightly different rate in which I type, or a trigger another neuron which triggers more which eventually causes me to do somethign slightly different, or whatever. If *THIS* moment is when I'm standing at a curve on a busy street and a bus comes by, maybe it's in the quantum realm that I step out into the bus and get killed. Maybe - that might be a possible universe.

The basis of the doppelganger idea is that if you have the same exact molecules in the same exact configuration making up the same exact person on the same exact planet, then their thoughts, actions, etc would also be identical. I don't agree with this idea. I agree with you that there is some kind of randomness built into the universe, so that even if you started out even with an entire identical planet or galaxy, eventually they would diverge and stop being identical just due to random variations.

If I understand correctly, there would be an infinite number of universes in an infinite number of configurations. There would be an infinite number of *me's* thinking exactly like I do up to *THIS* point in time. At *THIS* point, a branch would occur caused by quantum fluctuations that would cause a branch of infinite number of "me's" in every possible state allowed by quantum mechanics.

I don't buy that there are any other "me's" in other universes, if for no other reason a little bit of me goes a long way, and why would any universe want to do that to itself?

I will also accept Eleventy as a correct answer to this problem.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Do doppelgangers have the same parents? The pure randomness of evolving the same way humans have and then doppelganger parents of your great to the 50th grandparents meeting and having doppelganger babies all the way down to you is so almost infinitely unlikely, just you being born somewhere else (let alone in the same spot in an identical planet with identical surrounding neighbors) is not likely.

I don't know if I said that correctly. But, let me put it this way. Given that a multiverse exists and there are nearly infinite other livable planets with civilizations, that number is still going to be finite even if inexplicably large. At the same time, the odds of you being born in the same exact way into the same exact scenario are inexplicably small. And, then, from there, living the same exact life including meeting the same exact people at the same exact times and having the same exact outcomes to random events with numerous outcomes time and time again is inexplicably small. The odds of having a doppelganger are so small that even an almost infinite of chances aren't enough to make it happen.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Also, if you do accept that everyone has doppelgangers, then at this moment, you have to have a large amount of doppelgangers. How many depends on how long your lineage will continue. But, suffice to say, if you have a few kids, you'd have to have somewhere in the infinite amount of doppelgangers range to ensure your kids kids kids have doppelgangers....lest your life is preprogrammed and controlled by something greater than ourselves.

[Mary1966]

[/youtube]